Upfront pricing on complex remodel?

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JoeNorm

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Can you really bid these? You never really know what you'll find plus the chance the owner/architect will change stuff as the project progresses is more likely.

Doing them T&M isn't a lot of fun either, a lot to keep track of.

I am a fan of upfront pricing but remodels seem tough to do it with.
 
Give them a price range, or a price that is so high that you'll be happy with it if they accept it.

One option is that they pay you (with mark-up) for materials, so you can't lose $ on that side.
 
I don't have any problem giving complete upfront bids on complex remodels.

As long as I have "as built" and "new reflected" drawings, I can see the differences to get a handle on what's changing.

You can google the address to see the age of the place and see any number of pictures. That can help a bunch, even if you only see footprint and street view.

I have a per opening price to demo, and I have a per opening price to add back. And it's all in the counting
 
James L said:
I don't have any problem giving complete upfront bids on complex remodels.

As long as I have "as built" and "new reflected" drawings, I can see the differences to get a handle on what's changing.

You can google the address to see the age of the place and see any number of pictures. That can help a bunch, even if you only see footprint and street view.

I have a per opening price to demo, and I have a per opening price to add back. And it's all in the counting
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How would your bid price compare to your T&M price if you had to guess? Are you earning significantly more money this way or is it mainly for the ease of transaction that it is prefered?
 
JoeNorm said:
How would your bid price compare to your T&M price if you had to guess? Are you earning significantly more money this way or is it mainly for the ease of transaction that it is prefered?
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I like the ease of flat rates. Plus, I have a simple pricing formula that easy to pass along to a GC so he can get a reasonale ballpark without bothering me.

It's certainly a "take the good and bad together" approach. But 98% depends on how the GC (mis)manages the job.

I make a lot more money with flat pricing if the GC has his act together.

It gives me every incentive to work for people who make my life easier

I've done T&M, and it always comes with justifying the time, trying to sneak in a material markup...just too much for me.
 
roger said:
Write a specific job scope and after that it's Change Orders.
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Or with flat rates, no credits back on changes, only adds. I've gone through this:

We no longer want these lights in this configuration. What do you think about this other way? Do you have some ideas? Ok it's agreed.

Now credit back 17 x $$
Then add 13 x $$

So the net result is I spend time researching and helping you rework your lights, then work to figure a credit, then work to charge the new, all to end up charging less in the end? No
 
For me flat rate pricing. I look at the project and estimate what it takes plus my markup on the material or other subcontractor. Once the scope is agreed with the client then it is change order or extra work order after that. Even troubleshooting I do flat rate.

T&M is too much hassle.
 
I do a lot of remodels. I am T&M. There are so many changes in the work and so much bs going back and forth i find it easier with t/m. My GC's are fine with it. I charge 80$/hr plus material mark up and i charge for travel.
 
I always T&M them. I have looked at doing flat rate, as I've had some customers get pissy about the bill, but around here there is never any kind of plan. No original plan. No floor plan. It's almost always a few contractors flying by the seat of their pants and having a rough idea of what they want and figuring out as they go. Even the GC's T&M the jobs because of this.

Anything with a plan, I'm happy to bid and form a scope for.
 
Here is the problem with remodels. Even if you research when the house was built and you have yourself some nice fancy drawings , you cannot see what is not visible and ...... you have no idea about how many handy man types or homeowner thinks he knows how to wire cause he has a sailboat. There are equal numbers of absolute horror's as there is "in good condition." . If you bid , fine but make sure you add lots of bold clauses that cover for such things as defects in the existing wiring. That's how I always state it. We are not responsible for any defects in the existing wiring of the structure and we will be charging extra and over the agreed price to repair any defects that affect the work we are proposing to perform. Some life safety defects may be discovered and the repairs are mandatory and not negotiable. The customer agrees to these terms upon signing and accepting our contract.

And one more thing. The architect has no idea about how much the rodents have endangered the occupants. Don't let him bully you. He's no expert.
 
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