Upgrade panel or find the correct breakers

[Max Headroom]

I need an additional 20 amp single pole and a 20 amp 2-pole so I was thinking to change out 2 full space breaker's with 2 tandem's to free up enough space and then use a new 2-pole/2-space 20 Amp if I could get the proper breakers. I did contact Eaton because I thought their Type BR breaker was a listed replacement but they said they weren't able to come up with a solution other than a new load center which is probably not a bad idea. This panel serves a kitchen area at a nursing home that feeds about 50 people twice a day. Thank you for any input.

 

[LarryFine]

BR breakers are perfectly suitable, and the label says so. Also, all spaces will accept tandems.

 

[Max Headroom]

BR breakers are perfectly suitable, and the label says so. Also, all spaces will accept tandems.

Thank you for that information Larry, I saw on the Eaton tandem (BR A) and even on the quad (Types BRD & A) so is it the (A) that qualifies this breaker listed as compatible/interchangeable?

 

[Max Headroom]

Here is a reply I got from Eaton support a few days ago, thanks

Technical Support Engineer
Eaton Care – Distribution and Control Solutions
Greetings of the Day!!!

Unfortunately we don’t have any replacement breaker for Sylvania panel. In fact it is old offering and None of the vintage replacement charts specify about Sylvania. sorry for the inconvenience. In that case we would suggest getting a new Eaton panel and Eaton breaker. Or You may work with Flex team Lincoln, Flex center FlexCenterLincoln@Eaton.com to get retrofit kit, if they have any alternate solution for this.

Thanks,

 

[LarryFine]

Keep reading. It mentions using type BR marked for SWD.

Since all breakers are now SWD, that leaves just type BR.

In other words, BR breakers are rated for switching duty.

 

[Max Headroom]

Keep reading. It mentions using type BR marked for SWD.

Since all breakers are now SWD, that leaves just type BR.

In other words, BR breakers are rated for switching duty.

Fantastic, I'm looking at the HD website and I see a Cutler Hammer for notched and non notched stabs https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-B...ndem-Non-CTL-Circuit-Breaker-BR2020/100153768 and also an Eaton for notched only with a rejection feature https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-B...-CTL-Circuit-Breaker-BD2020/100124683#overlay, would either one of these work? One says BR the other BD. The bottom right space on my panel was empty so I could see the stab, it was notched, not sure about the one's I couldn't see though).

 

[LarryFine]

All of the stabs should be the same, since it's a 12-space/24-circuit panel.

Either should fit, so go for the less-expensive CTL version.

 

[Max Headroom]

All of the stabs should be the same, since it's a 12-space/24-circuit panel.

Either should fit, so go for the less-expensive CTL version.

Great Larry, thanks very much

 

[jaggedben]

I'll believe that type BD fit when I see notches on the busbars.

If it were my home, I'd also replace all the Type A 'side clip' breakers. Those get loose connections and arc. If I already saw serious evidence of that I'd replace the panel.

 

[LarryFine]

I'll believe that type BD fit when I see notches on the busbars.

The bottom right space on my panel was empty so I could see the stab, it was notched, ...

 

[Max Headroom]

I'll believe that type BD fit when I see notches on the busbars.

If it were my home, I'd also replace all the Type A 'side clip' breakers. Those get loose connections and arc. If I already saw serious evidence of that I'd replace the panel.

That sounds like good advise to me, thank you. Do the breakers in that panel look like they are type A side clip, I was thinking they must be like tandems with the stab and jaw between two wafers, I thought the side jaws were the means of getting a double pole into one space but I don't know as I have never seen them before.? Thanks

 

[Max Headroom]

That's the only stab I could see but it looks good to me, this old panel servers a kitchen that feeds 50 residents twice each day, it's a nursing home.

 

[jaggedben]

That sounds like good advise to me, thank you. Do the breakers in that panel look like they are type A side clip, I was thinking they must be like tandems with the stab and jaw between two wafers, I thought the side jaws were the means of getting a double pole into one space but I don't know as I have never seen them before.? Thanks

You might not have any side-clips in that panel, looks like they are similar to BD tandems with the contact in the middle. If so that's good.

Yes the side-clips allowed one to get two-pole breakers in the middle, kind of to create your own quad arrangements. Notjing wrong with it conceptually, GE still does something similar, but with a different shape busbar. Problem with the Challenger side clips seems to be they get bent out of shape and no longer make good contact.

 

[Max Headroom]

You might not have any side-clips in that panel, looks like they are similar to BD tandems with the contact in the middle. If so that's good.

Yes the side-clips allowed one to get two-pole breakers in the middle, kind of to create your own quad arrangements. Notjing wrong with it conceptually, GE still does something similar, but with a different shape busbar. Problem with the Challenger side clips seems to be they get bent out of shape and no longer make good contact.

That's good information to know, I appreciate that. I'm looking at this breaker I have, which BTW came from the storage room at the same facility, and the side clips are wider than the breaker so unless the breakers on each side of it had the same notch or grove this one has then I don't see there being enough room for a regular breaker like the Eaton BR. So if I end up installing a new panel I was thinking of using a Square D QO, this one has a 125 A bus so I would also replace it with a 125A buss with main lug only , same as what's there now but a 32 space 38 circuit, what do you think about the QO line verses the Homeline, the Homeline seems to be less costly but maybe you get what you pay for, not sure?

 

[LarryFine]

I'm looking at this breaker I have, which BTW came from the storage room at the same facility, and the side clips are wider than the breaker so unless the breakers on each side of it had the same notch or grove this one has then I don't see there being enough room for a regular breaker like the Eaton BR

Only another similar breaker could fit alongside anyway.

what do you think about the QO line verses the Homeline, the Homeline seems to be less costly but maybe you get what you pay for, not sure?

I've heard tell that the innards are the same in both lines.

The case has hollow areas, suggesting it's shaped to be 1" wide:



Tandem breakers certainly have narrow mechanisms.

 

[Max Headroom]

Only another similar breaker could fit alongside anyway.


I've heard tell that the innards are the same in both lines.

The case has hollow areas, suggesting it's shaped to be 1" wide:

View attachment 2568236

Tandem breakers certainly have narrow mechanisms.

I was pricing (1) 2-Pole 20A GFCI, (1) SING POLE 20A GFCI, (18) SING POLE STANDARD TRIP BREAKERS @ HD $290 for the HOM and $508 for the QO, the QO boast a red flag that let's someone know what has tripped,