Upgrading "This Old House"

charlie b · Jun 9, 2005

A friend recently moved, and I am temporarily renting his old house. He knows he will have to upgrade the electrical on "This Old House" before he tries to sell it. I would like to give him a general notion of the types of work required and a likely range for the costs. Can anyone give me a round number (i.e., is it likely to be closer to $1000, or $3000, or $5000, or higher)? Here is a general description and some of the issues that would require correction:

I don?t know the age of the house. But it is older than I am, and I remember seeing JFK in San Antonio the day before he was shot in Dallas.

Downstairs is 2000 ft2, 2 BR, 2 bath. There is a LR, a DR, and a den. Upstairs is 500 ft2 Master BR with bath.

Main panel is Zinsko 225 amp. That will be the first thing to go.

If I run the coffee pot (counter-top receptacle) and the dishwasher at the same time, it trips a breaker.

Many rooms have walls (over 2 foot wide) with no outlets.

Kitchen and bathrooms have GFCI, but bedrooms have no AFCI devices.

Outdoor and garage receptacles are not even grounded, let alone GFCI!

Garage has NM stapled along the studs. There is no slack in the receptacle outlet boxes to allow you to pull out the receptacle (i.e., if you needed to replace one)

celtic · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

Quick answer ~ higher.

Did you get this month's EC&M? There was an article in it about a contractor in Florida that charges almost $3000 for a 200A service (based on "flat rate pricing"). I'm in NJ (our rates are generally higher than FL's) and I would promptly be shown the door for an estimate of 3k on a SFH ~ I was just shown the door on a 2-family, requiring 3 meters for 2.5K.

Doing a quick sq. ft. pricing, assuming the place is gutted to the studs; no other trades in the way (you are there before or after, not with); at $2/sq. ft you are at 5k ~ service not included.

If the above are NOT viable, the number only goes up...rapidly.

Not sure if that is what you are looking for, but that's about the best I can give you w/o device and fixrure counts, ceiling heights, accessibility questions etc.

Here's an interesting story for you:This Old House ~ wiring

electricmanscott · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

Charlie, as far as I am concerned none of that work MUST be done. It would be nice to upgrade as much as possible but if it were me I would probably spend as little as possible. Maybe spend a couple grand on the service which gives the new owner a good starting point for future upgrades. It would be silly to spend a bunch of money on things only to have a new homeowner come in and do some renovations that undo the work you just did.

As for the article linked in the second post, what a crock of crap. :roll: I just toured the latest TOH project and the electrical work done by one of the articles featured electricians would not pass inspection if I, or anyone that follows the NEC, were doing it. Incidently the town that the project is in is also home to Americas favorite carpenter Norm Abrams. Small town politics?

haskindm · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

The house only needs to meet the code that was in force when it was built. If you are installing a new receptacle in an area that now requires AFCI or GFCI protection you would need to upgrade accordingly, but nothing forces you to bring an old house up to today's code. If the house is gutted, it is a different story as it will then be treated as new work. If you are uncomfortable with the service panel, have that upgraded and add circuits/receptacles as needed to eliminate tripping (such as a separate circuit for the dishwasher). The other items you mentioned would not be required upgrades unless you are completely remodeling the house. With old work, there is no such thing as a ballpark estimate. A qualified electrician will need to look at the conditions and prepare an estimate accordingly. Keep in mind you don't get much for $1000 these days.

william runkle · Jun 25, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

In michigan the Owner of the rental can not pull a permit or work on the rental. And the renter can not do so likewise. Homeowner can pull apermit on his house he lives in or the house he will move into. So if the rules the same where you are at, you should call in 5 ECs in and get a close estimate, throw out the high and low and average the middle bids to give you an idea of cost.

bigjohn67 · Jun 25, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

When the home is inspected by the "home inspector" ask them to show you their Electrical Liscense.
100% of the time they can not produce one.

jimwalker · Jun 26, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

A rough guide is 1 journeyman with 1 good helper 1 hour per opening plus material and thats with min damage.If its an old Knob and Tube life actually gets easy.I use the holes from the tubes to my advantage.You are not required to bring the spacing up to code.I ran into this on one of the 1920's homes in Tampa.It was going to be easier to just add 2 new outlets and deleet the original 2 in the bedrooms upstairs.Inspector said no.Said i am welcome to add as many as i want but if i remove any then we go to bringing wall spacing up to code.Best thing to do is try to get the ahj to visit the house first.Even if they charge you something your job will go far easier and cheaper.

Here in Tampa with even low wages i would figure $100 per outlet or switch and a good day in a vacant house would be 6 to 8 items in a day.

I will flat refuse to do another rewire with it being lived in.Ball park price over $5,000

Perhaps that breaker would not trip had they use FP breakers

growler · Jun 26, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

I agree with Scott, This Old House is a joke, A very sanitized view of remodeling. People see this program and assume that the low bid contractors they get are all honest, highly skilled professionals that enjoy doing quality work ( the truth is somewhat different ). I have found an interesting site with price quotes and while I don't agree with all of their numbers it would probably be a good place to start. The site is www.ablegroup.net/info-electrical.html , I haven't figured out their service rates yet but the figures are designed to be adjusted for different conditions. The electricians in that area must use them in some way. I'm sure they don't really do service upgrades that cheap.

charlie b · Jun 26, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

Many thanks for the replies. I have advised the owners that the cost of a complete rewire would likely be over $5k. They were a bit surprised that it might cost that much. But how often are your potential customers surprised at the estimates? I just don?t think many homeowners have an idea of what it takes to do a job safely and professionally.

macmikeman · Jun 26, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

Growler, that is an interesting link. I think the prices are too low by maybe a factor of 40 per cent overall.

jeff43222 · Jun 26, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

I agree. I'd find another line of work if I had to bill out at those rates.

gndrod · Jun 27, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

Hi Charlie b, The purchaser will probably get a franchised home inspector that is usually trained to look at the cosmetic aspects of electrical issues like burnt out light bulbs or non-operative devices or circuits like the one mentioned. This is the negotiable end of the RE transaction.
The Zinsco* Combo Main is not as severe as FPE system problems unless additions are being contemplated. Upgrading for safety is the most important item. (smoke detectors emphatically.) This is a buyer decision.
The buyer is the one to find out what the roof, electrical, plumbing and HVAC are going to cost and that may be inflated for purchase pricing. I hope your friend doesn't get scared into doing a major remod. That is generally a mistake. The HI may not know electrical either, (and they generally don't.) so have your friend wait and see what comes of the counter-offer response.

rbj, Seattle
*spelling

[ June 27, 2005, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: gndrod ]

wpaul29 · Jul 11, 2005

Re: Upgrading "This Old House"

Im doing the same thing right now in a house about the same size. So far I have completed a new 200A service and almost done the kitchen. I am up to about $3500.00 already an I still got the rest of the house. I am doing the whole house to the 2005 code standards. The worst thing is getting out all the old nob an tube that is a pain. Running the new circuits is a breeze.

Upgrading "This Old House"

charlie b

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celtic

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