Upside down panel circuit numbering?

Status
Not open for further replies.
L

LCELECTRIC

Member
Location
Los Angeles, California
I am installing a 225A 3PH sub-panel that will be re-using the existing bottom fed sub-feeds and the panel I am using says it can be inverted for bottom fed applications...I am a little confused though as the circuit numbers are stamped into the cover so instead of circuit 1 being on the top left and circuit 42 being on the bottom right, circuit 1 is now on the bottom right and circuit 42 is now on the top left...How should the breakers be installed? Do I still start with circuit 1 on the top left or the bottom right? My panel schedules on my plans do not specify an inverted panel. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
 
Do not invert! :p


If you do invert, I suggest you get permanent labels (actually they'd be semi-permanent compared to the stamped numbers) to number in standard 1-3-5 left-right order.

PS: can an "inverted" cover be ordered?
 
Who cares how they're numbered?













Heck, you don't even need to number them.... you can name the circuits Fred, Louise, Todd, Emily and Tim.
 
Unfortunately the deadfront is stamped with circuit numbers and an inverted deadfront is not available and my Inspector is requesting that each end of the circuit be labeled with circuit number and equipment description. I could possibly try to cover the stamped numbers but I don't want there to be any confusion since there is an additional 5 panels next them that are right side up.
 
If I ran into this situation (and I have before), I'd just leave it as top feed and run the feeder conductors around the side. No one will know the difference once the cover is on.
 
Smart $ said:
If I ran into this situation (and I have before), I'd just leave it as top feed and run the feeder conductors around the side. No one will know the difference once the cover is on.
Click to expand...

I will call you some choice words if I have to work on the panel! I hate having to deal with a feeder wrapping all the way around a panel getting in the way of the neutral buses, ground buses and branch breakers. There is nothing wrong with the numbers starting on the bottom. Some Combination Service Entrance Devices we use are factory numbered from the bottom and there is no way to reverse the panel even if we wanted to.
 
Smart $ said:
If I ran into this situation (and I have before), I'd just leave it as top feed and run the feeder conductors around the side. No one will know the difference once the cover is on.
Click to expand...

The feeder conductors only extend into the panel about 12" which won't make it to the lugs if it is right side up, I would just pull new feeders but there are 4-3/0 over 75' in length (Not cheap!)
 
I don't know about all brands but Eaton Cutler Hammer panels come with the adhesive labels for the panel. There are some for naming the circuits and some for numbering them. You could put the row of numbering right side up (which is what I do) or upside down. If upside down it would match the stamped numbers in the panel.
Of course I'm talking about if you invert the panel.
 
Does it matter if #1 is black or blue?

You gonna land the feeds left to right, or right to left?

I would land left to right, making top row black, then re-number from the top

that makes it match all the other panels in layout
 
James L said:
Does it matter if #1 is black or blue?

You gonna land the feeds left to right, or right to left?

I would land left to right, making top row black, then re-number from the top

that makes it match all the other panels in layout
Click to expand...

I'm thinking of starting circuit 1 at the top and re-numbering the panel.. so that would actually be the c-phase if the panel was right side up, so I would want to go black-orange-blue if you were looking at the panel correct? That way numbering and phases match the other panels.
 
LCELECTRIC said:
I'm thinking of starting circuit 1 at the top and re-numbering the panel.. so that would actually be the c-phase if the panel was right side up, so I would want to go black-orange-blue if you were looking at the panel correct? That way numbering and phases match the other panels.
Click to expand...
Yes. With the lugs on the bottom, I would land black on the left, which would have been "C" if right side up.


then ignore the stamped numbers and start #1 at the top
 
James L said:
Yes. With the lugs on the bottom, I would land black on the left, which would have been "C" if right side up.


then ignore the stamped numbers and start #1 at the top
Click to expand...
FWIW, the NEC requires us to assign the buses A, B, C, left to right (or top down)... and inverting a panelboard doesn't change that.

And be careful if the number of spaces is not divisible by 6. You may end up with a phase other than A at the top.
 
Smart $ said:
FWIW, the NEC requires us to assign the buses A, B, C, left to right (or top down)... and inverting a panelboard doesn't change that.

And be careful if the number of spaces is not divisible by 6. You may end up with a phase other than A at the top.
Click to expand...


I had to go back and read the OP before I submitted my advice. I thought he had said 42, and double checked, because I had such a scenario in mind
 
What brand of panel has stamped numbers?

The 42 space single phase panelboards are kind of an odd duck too in that you start with black, red, black, red.....and then end in black too, rather then red. I wasn't paying attention the first time I came across this and had to move a circuit or two around to get the coloring sequence right. DOH.
 
Cow said:
What brand of panel has stamped numbers?

The 42 space single phase panelboards are kind of an odd duck too in that you start with black, red, black, red.....and then end in black too, rather then red. I wasn't paying attention the first time I came across this and had to move a circuit or two around to get the coloring sequence right. DOH.
Click to expand...


It's a 3 phase delta

Siemens model# S4260L3225
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2015-10-14-16-59-45.jpg
    Screenshot_2015-10-14-16-59-45.jpg
    5.2 KB · Views: 2
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top