Urd

[rwreuter]

Question for all of you that are in the know on this subject......


URD....where does it say in the Code that I cannot run FUSED 4/0-4/0-2/0 URD inside of a house and NOT in conduit?

I know that I have not seen it done, but everytime I ask someone or look for a reference that says it can't be done I can't find it or no one can produce it.

I know the NEC states that you can't run unfused service entrance conductors more than 15' into a structure.



rw

 

[Dennis Alwon]

read art. 338.12(B). The Nec doe not accept URD as a wiring method-- if I remember "underground rural delivery". We use USE

 

[infinity]

I know the NEC states that you can't run unfused service entrance conductors more than 15' into a structure.



rw

Actually the NEC does not put a length on these conductors within a structure. In many places, like here in NJ, 15' would be completely unacceptable.

VI. Service Equipment — Disconnecting Means
230.70 General.
Means shall be provided to disconnect all conductors in a building or other structure from the service-entrance conductors.
(A) Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed in accordance with 230.70(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3).
(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.

 

[shepelec]

USE does not have a flame resistant insulation on it either.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

USE does not have a flame resistant insulation on it either.

I believe that some brands do as in USE-2. It has to pass a vertical flame
testing process.

 

[George Stolz]

read art. 338.12(B).

Agreed. 338.12(B)(1) and (2) violation.

 

[rwreuter]

Agreed. 338.12(B)(1) and (2) violation.

Ok having read this, at least at face value, it would seem that I can't use this USE (triplex) and LB into the house and then pipe it 10' or so to the 200amp breaker panel.

Am I reading this correctly?

If I am, then what is a man to do, there are not many options.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Ok having read this, at least at face value, it would seem that I can't use this USE (triplex) and LB into the house and then pipe it 10' or so to the 200amp breaker panel.

Am I reading this correctly?

If I am, then what is a man to do, there are not many options.

I'm confused, you said it was fused. Where? I assume that means you are past the service. Why are you running 3 wires?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Ok having read this, at least at face value, it would seem that I can't use this USE (triplex) and LB into the house and then pipe it 10' or so to the 200amp breaker panel.

Am I reading this correctly?

If I am, then what is a man to do, there are not many options.

Not everyone agrees with George's or my comment. If the cable is use-2 then some believe that the insulation on the wiring if suitable for indoor use and could be used.

You could elbow out of the ground into a JB , then slice thwn or whatever you choice into the house.

One supplier around here sells use-2 with Rhh/rhw insulation-- It would seem that would be allowed indoors. I think 338.12 should make a statement that would allow this by simply excepting USE-2

 

[rwreuter]

ok, i was trying to keep this simple....sorry.

here is the deal.

the meter and a 200amp disconnect is on a poll about 170' away. I am going to pull 4/0-4/0-2/0-4 to the house, use a LB and enter the house, pipe in PVC about 10' to the electrical panel.

the original question, was first do i need to pipe it to the panel (big pain)...after more information was gained i became leary of the legality of even piping it.

now you have as paul harvey would say the rest of the story. how would you all proceed?



rw

 

[rwreuter]

Not everyone agrees with George's or my comment. If the cable is use-2 then some believe that the insulation on the wiring if suitable for indoor use and could be used.

You could elbow out of the ground into a JB , then slice thwn or whatever you choice into the house.

One supplier around here sells use-2 with Rhh/rhw insulation-- It would seem that would be allowed indoors. I think 338.12 should make a statement that would allow this by simply excepting USE-2

it will be to the best of my knowledge use-2.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

ok, i was trying to keep this simple....sorry.

here is the deal.

the meter and a 200amp disconnect is on a poll about 170' away. I am going to pull 4/0-4/0-2/0-4 to the house, use a LB and enter the house, pipe in PVC about 10' to the electrical panel.

the original question, was first do i need to pipe it to the panel (big pain)...after more information was gained i became leary of the legality of even piping it.

now you have as paul harvey would say the rest of the story. how would you all proceed?



rw

I don't know your calculated load but you should considered that 170 feet for VD, If your load is no where near 200 then it may not be an issue.

You think that piping the run is not legal? When is this the case. Certainly USE_2 cable is cheaper than piping it but if I could I would pipe it to avoid cuts in the line. I know money is a big factor.

 

[rwreuter]

i have done a voltage drop calc, and all is well...

 

[rwreuter]

Agreed. 338.12(B)(1) and (2) violation.

here is where i have cause to think that it may be a violation.

2. for aboveground installations except where use cable emerges from the ground and is terminated in an enclosure at an outdoor location and the cable is protected in accordance with 300.5(d).


"terminated in an enclosure at an outdoor location"

am i misinterpreting the phrase?


rw

 

[lakee911]

Come up outside into a JB, transition to a wire/cable rated for use indoors and take it to your panel.

I ran into a similar situation and settled for XHHW in conduit outdoors and indoors.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

Not everyone agrees with George's or my comment. If the cable is use-2 then some believe that the insulation on the wiring if suitable for indoor use and could be used.

You could elbow out of the ground into a JB , then slice thwn or whatever you choice into the house.

One supplier around here sells use-2 with Rhh/rhw insulation-- It would seem that would be allowed indoors. I think 338.12 should make a statement that would allow this by simply excepting USE-2

Right or wrong I would rather see the USE-2 run in pipe the 10ft into the house than have a JB on the outside with aluminum wire spliced. I have yet to see a mobile home that the USE did not come from the disco outside down to the ground,under the home and go up a PVC pipe directly to the panel inside. It may violate 338 as I see it written,done that way anyway.

 

[220wire]

URD should be allowed to some extent to be run inside conduit for interior wiring. So URD insulation has toxic chemicals if it catches on fire... If my house was on fire, URD smoke is the last thing I would care about. Doesn't make sense to install a junction on the exterior of the house. I guess you could put a handhole out there with XHHW connected to the URD, now you got one more potential problem with a splice in the ground.

 

[lakee911]

Doesn't make sense to install a junction on the exterior of the house. I guess you could put a handhole out there with XHHW connected to the URD, now you got one more potential problem with a splice in the ground.

It is silly to splice...even if panel is on exterior of wall, but if you have a real tough inspector he'll make you change it.

Jason

 

[George Stolz]

URD should be allowed to some extent to be run inside conduit for interior wiring. So URD insulation has toxic chemicals if it catches on fire... If my house was on fire, URD smoke is the last thing I would care about.

While that may be so, a line has to be drawn somewhere. If you can substantiate a change, you'll be in time for the 2014 NEC.

Doesn't make sense to install a junction on the exterior of the house.

It doesn't cause that much controversy either, though. Why not just adopt the safest method?

 

[kbsparky]

read art. 338.12(B). The Nec doe not accept URD as a wiring method-- if I remember "underground rural delivery". We use USE

I always thought it was "Underground Residential Distribution" -- but even so I believe that the Code does not mention this type of wiring method because it is mainly a slang or trade term.

Most URD cables I have encountered are actually a tri- or quad-plex of USE conductors in any case.