USE-2 Indoors

[Dennis Alwon]

We are discussing this on another forum and I know we have discusses it here. The results on this forum was that if it is USE-2 and marked as Rhw or Thwn etc then it can be run in conduit inside. I am OK with that however how do we get around section 338.12(B)

The poster at the other forum got rejected and quite frankly I don't know if he has a leg to stand on. The code says NO for indoors and does not mention USE-2. USE-2 is still USE cable....Why have we been telling people it is okay?

My take on it is that we can use USE-2 as an UG cable without conduit or we can use the cable as Rhw-2 or whatever it is marked and thus it isn't USE cable anymore.... That is strange if that is the case.

Any comments

(B) Underground Service-Entrance Cable. Underground
service-entrance cable (USE) shall not be used under the
following conditions or in the following locations:
(1) For interior wiring
(2) For aboveground installations except where USE cable
emerges from the ground and is terminated in an enclosure
at an outdoor location and the cable is protected in
accordance with 300.5(D)
(3) As aerial cable unless it is a multiconductor cable identified
for use aboveground and installed as messenger supported
wiring in accordance with 225.10 and Part II of
Article 396

 

[electrofelon]

We are discussing this on another forum and I know we have discusses it here. The results on this forum was that if it is USE-2 and marked as Rhw or Thwn etc then it can be run in conduit inside. I am OK with that however how do we get around section 338.12(B)

The poster at the other forum got rejected and quite frankly I don't know if he has a leg to stand on. The code says NO for indoors and does not mention USE-2. USE-2 is still USE cable....Why have we been telling people it is okay?

My take on it is that we can use USE-2 as an UG cable without conduit or we can use the cable as Rhw-2 or whatever it is marked and thus it isn't USE cable anymore.... That is strange if that is the case.

Any comments

I never thought about it that way, I suppose the wording could be clarified, but my take/assumption is that where a conductor has multiple ratings, I can add to the uses without being restricted by the most restrictive use marked (did I say that right?) . My justification is I always see the word "or" used between types on the conductor.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I never thought about it that way, I suppose the wording could be clarified, but my take/assumption is that where a conductor has multiple ratings, I can add to the uses without being restricted by the most restrictive use marked (did I say that right?) . My justification is I always see the word "or" used between types on the conductor.

So I run an UG USE-2 with no conduit and come up out of the ground inside the house and now the wire is not USE-2 anymore....LOL

It is a conundrum, imo. I think they need to clarify it in the code for sure

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I also don't see it as "or" but rather as "and"

 

[electrofelon]

I also don't see it as "or" but rather as "and"

Well it does say "or" on the conductor, so perhaps you need glasses

 

[infinity]

I would say it's actually RHW-2 but can used as USE because it is so rated. From Southwire:

Underground Service Entrance Cable. 600 Volt. AlumaFlex® Brand Aluminum Alloy (AA-8176)
Conductor. Cross-linked Polyethylene (XLP) Insulation. High Heat, Moisture, and Sunlight
Resistant. Also Rated THWN-2. Rated SIS in #8 – 4/0 AWG
Southwire Type RHH or RHW-2 or USE-2 conductors are used with conduit as specified
in the National Electrical Code. When used as Type USE-2, conductors are suitable for
use as underground service entrance conductors for direct burial at conductor
temperatures not to exceed 90°C. When used as RHW-2 or USE-2, conductor
temperatures shall not exceed 90°C in wet or dry locations. Voltage rating for RHW-2 or
RHH or USE-2 conductors is 600 volts.
Southwire Type RHH or RHW-2 or USE-2 conductors comply with the following:
• ASTM B-800 and B-801
• UL 44 for RHH or RHW-2
• UL 854 for USE-2
• Federal Specification A-A-59544
• National Electrical Code, NFPA 70, 2011 Edition
• NEMA WC-70 Construction Requirements
• RoHS/Reach Compliant
Southwire Type RHH or RHW-2 or USE-2 conductors are AlumaFlex® Brand AA-8000
series aluminum alloy, compact stranded. The insulation is an abrasion, moisture, heat
and sunlight-resistant black cross-linked polyethylene (XLP). CT rated available upon
request sizes 1/0 and larger.

 

[tom baker]

There is another forum?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Well it does say "or" on the conductor, so perhaps you need glasses

I don't have the wire... I was assuming since it was both. LOL

 

[infinity]

It has more than one rating. If using it indoors in a raceway it's rated as RHH or RHW-2 and you ingnor the USE rating. If using outdoors as direct burial you ignore the RHW rating because RHH/RHW-2 cannot be buried in the ground.

 

[electrofelon]

It has more than one rating. If using it indoors in a raceway it's rated as RHH or RHW-2 and you ingnor the USE rating. If using outdoors as direct burial you ignore the RHW rating because RHH/RHW-2 cannot be buried in the ground.

Yeah just logically it is clear you can use either rating and ignore the other one. If that wasn't the case, then you couldn't use "USE-2 or RHH-2" conductors for ANYTHING!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Trust me I see no reason not to allow it but I can see the inspectors point.

Yeah just logically it is clear you can use either rating and ignore the other one. If that wasn't the case, then you couldn't use "USE-2 or RHH-2" conductors for ANYTHING!

Exactly

 

[infinity]

Trust me I see no reason not to allow it but I can see the inspectors point.

What point is that? If he's saying that multi-rated and listed conductors cannot be used indoors because one of the ratings is USE then he just plain wrong.

 

[roger]

If he's saying that multi-rated and listed conductors cannot be used indoors because one of the ratings is USE then he just plain wrong.

Kinda like saying a NEMA 3R enclosure can not be used in a NEMA 1 location.

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What point is that? If he's saying that multi-rated and listed conductors cannot be used indoors because one of the ratings is USE then he just plain wrong.

He sees USE written on the cable and he knows the code states USE cannot be used indoors. That is as far as he went with it and apparently is not listening to the contractors reasons. I disagree but I see what he is thinking, he is just incorrect.

 

[infinity]

He sees USE written on the cable and he knows the code states USE cannot be used indoors. That is as far as he went with it and apparently is not listening to the contractors reasons. I disagree but I see what he is thinking, he is just incorrect.

We all agree that the inspector is incorrect and may need a refresher course on conductor insulation types.

 

[LarryFine]

Yeah just logically it is clear you can use either rating and ignore the other one. If that wasn't the case, then you couldn't use "USE-2 or RHH-2" conductors for ANYTHING!

Exactly, and a good way to present the rebuttal. Ask him where a dual-rated wire may be used.

It's either both or neither.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Exactly, and a good way to present the rebuttal. Ask him where a dual-rated wire may be used.

It's either both or neither.

That is my feeling if you can't accept the Rhw-2 inside then you can't accept the rhw-2 outside without conduit. It is rated USE-2 but it is also rated rhw-2 or something so rhw-2 is not allowed outside in a trench without conduit