Used breakers on the web?
- Thread starter toosparks
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bdarnell
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis, IN
- Occupation
- Retired Engineer
Re: Used breakers on the web?
We buy them all the time from a local firm that reconditions and tests them.
We've also bought from other companies in other states that do the same thing. As long as you buy from reputable companies, you shouldn't have any problems.
I'm sure as I say that, there will be a horror story or two come along.
We buy them all the time from a local firm that reconditions and tests them.
We've also bought from other companies in other states that do the same thing. As long as you buy from reputable companies, you shouldn't have any problems.
I'm sure as I say that, there will be a horror story or two come along.
Re: Used breakers on the web?
When you install them, do you quote and sell them as reconditioned breakers? What are the warranty implications?
What process do they use to recondition them? Do they really have the equipment to test them and verify they are up to the original manufacturer's specs? Given the uncertainty that must exist about the breaker's previous service life, this strikes me as a bad place to same money.
When you install them, do you quote and sell them as reconditioned breakers? What are the warranty implications?
charlie tuna
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Used breakers on the web?
i have only bought reconditioned breakers when i have no other choice. ie if they have been discontinued. from what they charge for the used breakers - i would recommend to my customers to go with new!!!
we followed behind another contractor in a printing company where they purchased used breakers on a new installation. this contractor was contracted to do the shell of the building and we were installing the presses. first breaker we energized wouldn't close. the shell contractor was called and he swapped that breaker with another. this one closed but only conducted voltage thru two phases even though it was a three pole breaker??? we pulled the breaker out and as we removed the faceplate we realized the faceplate didn't match the numbers on the breaker molded case. this breaker was designed to be used on D.C. and there was no blade inside to conduct electricity across "C" phase? again, the shell electrical contractor was called -- he then explained that he purchased the breakers thru a reconditioning shop, and that they had sold him mis-marked and doctored breakers! the building owner was red hot! the switchgear was cutler hammer and the breakers were not locally available and we now have a brand new six color press awaiting testing power!! he called his attorney and was told to purchase all "new" breakers thru my company and the other contractor would be responsible for the costs. the two breakers cost was around $16,000. plus freight! i later found out the other contractor figured these breakers wouldn't be used for some time and he tried to substitute these used breakers in place of the new.... i have looked over the local operation of a used breaker shop --- reconditioned means --- wiped down with wd-40!!!
i have only bought reconditioned breakers when i have no other choice. ie if they have been discontinued. from what they charge for the used breakers - i would recommend to my customers to go with new!!!
we followed behind another contractor in a printing company where they purchased used breakers on a new installation. this contractor was contracted to do the shell of the building and we were installing the presses. first breaker we energized wouldn't close. the shell contractor was called and he swapped that breaker with another. this one closed but only conducted voltage thru two phases even though it was a three pole breaker??? we pulled the breaker out and as we removed the faceplate we realized the faceplate didn't match the numbers on the breaker molded case. this breaker was designed to be used on D.C. and there was no blade inside to conduct electricity across "C" phase? again, the shell electrical contractor was called -- he then explained that he purchased the breakers thru a reconditioning shop, and that they had sold him mis-marked and doctored breakers! the building owner was red hot! the switchgear was cutler hammer and the breakers were not locally available and we now have a brand new six color press awaiting testing power!! he called his attorney and was told to purchase all "new" breakers thru my company and the other contractor would be responsible for the costs. the two breakers cost was around $16,000. plus freight! i later found out the other contractor figured these breakers wouldn't be used for some time and he tried to substitute these used breakers in place of the new.... i have looked over the local operation of a used breaker shop --- reconditioned means --- wiped down with wd-40!!!
bdarnell
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis, IN
- Occupation
- Retired Engineer
Re: Used breakers on the web?
All of our reconditioned Air Circuit Breaker have been thoroughly tested under load and calibrated to comply with original manufacturer test curves. We use a Multi-Amp (CB-9116 & CB-8160) high current injection test set to calibrate and a Mega Ohm Meter (Biddle BM-11D) to insure proper insulation integrity.
Understand that we only use this resource when a breaker is obsolete or unavailable from a conventional source. I didn't make that comment in my earlier post.
From the supplier:
All of our reconditioned Air Circuit Breaker have been thoroughly tested under load and calibrated to comply with original manufacturer test curves. We use a Multi-Amp (CB-9116 & CB-8160) high current injection test set to calibrate and a Mega Ohm Meter (Biddle BM-11D) to insure proper insulation integrity.
Yes.
We give the end user the same warranty we get.
Understand that we only use this resource when a breaker is obsolete or unavailable from a conventional source. I didn't make that comment in my earlier post.
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Re: Used breakers on the web?
Ask about PEARL standards and you should get a test report that complies with NETA or PEARL specs.
There are a lot of junk dealers out there, be careful!
We stock about 200 refurbished power circuit breakers from 480-15kV. We warrantee all of our breakers and have never had someone use the warranty.
All of our breakers are completely torn down, springs and damaged roll pins replaced, frames repainted and all parts resurfaced or replaced IAW PEARL standards. All breakers are tested per NETA specs before they leave the shop.
Ask about PEARL standards and you should get a test report that complies with NETA or PEARL specs.
There are a lot of junk dealers out there, be careful!
We stock about 200 refurbished power circuit breakers from 480-15kV. We warrantee all of our breakers and have never had someone use the warranty.
All of our breakers are completely torn down, springs and damaged roll pins replaced, frames repainted and all parts resurfaced or replaced IAW PEARL standards. All breakers are tested per NETA specs before they leave the shop.
Re: Used breakers on the web?
My only experience has been bad.
Customer had some LV lighting transformers causing nuisance trips on a square D QO breaker. I reviewed the literature with the lighting transfomer, and it says you need a HM (High Magnetic) version. I go to the square D dealer and they sya 2 weeks to get one. I go to the local (supposedly) reputable breaker reconditioner in Orange County (you guys no which one I'm talking about!), and pickup 3 HM breakers. Nuisance tripping is slightly reduced, but same problem. Well, I blamed the transformer manufacturer, who reproduces my setup in his shop and can't get a trip after 1000 cyles. I ordered the new HM breakers and upon installation, have not had a problem since.
This single experience means that I only used reconditioned if it is an emergency or an impossible breaker to get.
mike
My only experience has been bad.
Customer had some LV lighting transformers causing nuisance trips on a square D QO breaker. I reviewed the literature with the lighting transfomer, and it says you need a HM (High Magnetic) version. I go to the square D dealer and they sya 2 weeks to get one. I go to the local (supposedly) reputable breaker reconditioner in Orange County (you guys no which one I'm talking about!), and pickup 3 HM breakers. Nuisance tripping is slightly reduced, but same problem. Well, I blamed the transformer manufacturer, who reproduces my setup in his shop and can't get a trip after 1000 cyles. I ordered the new HM breakers and upon installation, have not had a problem since.
This single experience means that I only used reconditioned if it is an emergency or an impossible breaker to get.
mike
Re: Used breakers on the web?
I keep a few used breakers (and panel parts) I have salvaged from panel changeouts. They include FPE, ITE bulldog (push-O-matic), Zinsco, and 2- 15's and 2- 20's of the GE 1/2" breakers. I rarely replace these. Usually I end up doing a panel change. I keep these few for those 3 a.m. service calls where it "just has to work" before I leave. I.E.: Furnace fan circuits and A/C circuits. Once I had to use one to fix a bedroom circuit so the nice man could run his oxygen generator.
I always test the breakers at home to make sure they will trip at the appropriate amperage (not including the trip if over 80% for 3 hours or more) and will reset. I always tell the customer that they are used and recommend that they have me come back to replace with new when I can get them or have the panel changed. I explain that, as used, they may fail at any time and are not under warranty. I do not charge for the breaker, only the time. I put the explaination of "used breaker" the warning of failure and lack of warranty in writing on the bill and they sign off just like any other billing. They never want me to come back with a new one even though I will only charge for the breaker at markup on the return trip, and I have never had a call back on one.
I keep a few used breakers (and panel parts) I have salvaged from panel changeouts. They include FPE, ITE bulldog (push-O-matic), Zinsco, and 2- 15's and 2- 20's of the GE 1/2" breakers. I rarely replace these. Usually I end up doing a panel change. I keep these few for those 3 a.m. service calls where it "just has to work" before I leave. I.E.: Furnace fan circuits and A/C circuits. Once I had to use one to fix a bedroom circuit so the nice man could run his oxygen generator.
I always test the breakers at home to make sure they will trip at the appropriate amperage (not including the trip if over 80% for 3 hours or more) and will reset. I always tell the customer that they are used and recommend that they have me come back to replace with new when I can get them or have the panel changed. I explain that, as used, they may fail at any time and are not under warranty. I do not charge for the breaker, only the time. I put the explaination of "used breaker" the warning of failure and lack of warranty in writing on the bill and they sign off just like any other billing. They never want me to come back with a new one even though I will only charge for the breaker at markup on the return trip, and I have never had a call back on one.
Re: Used breakers on the web?
I would not give it to them for free. Just cause you got it free doesn't mean it has no value. From your post it sounds VERY valuable, not to mention you carried it around in your truck, taking up space for who knows how long. Sell it as used but charge 'em. IMO
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
Re: Used breakers on the web?
I have a job that may require a square d breaker that the supplier is telling me will be 1700. On the net it is 600.
I have a job that may require a square d breaker that the supplier is telling me will be 1700. On the net it is 600.
gedwards
Member
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
Keep in mind:
5-15kV breakers and 600V ANSI Air Frame breakers are designed so they can be re-conditioned or completely disassembled and rebuilt. There are a number of companies as well as the OEM that will rebuild these breakers.
Molded Case breakers are not designed to be reconditioned or "re-built". The cases are epoxy sealed and designed to be tamper-proof. There there are no parts or repair bulletins made available by the OEM's for anyone to refer to to ensure the proper parts are replaced and the interior mechanical tolerances are maintained.
I have personally been involved in situations where "NIB" breakers have been purchased from companies dealing in used and surplus breakers. I have seen doctored labels, breakers that showed they had been exposed to excessive heating on the terminals, breakers that have been exposed to water due to a fire or flooding. Granted some breakers may come from inventory from a bankruptcy or closing, however as these units are all puchased 2nd hand there is no guarantee what the breakers have been exposed to.
My first recommendation is that the breaker is puchased through an authorized OEM channel. If that is not feasible due to the availability of an older breaker, I would recommend that you obtain the services of a testing firm that can perform tests per NETA standards on any "used" breaker.
Most customers are not apt to accept "used" breakers when they are still available from the OEM, and will be highly upset if they find out after the fact.
Also you need to keep in mind the OEM's warranty. Most OEM's warranties state that if devices are installed that are purchased outside the proper channel, it voids the warranty on the overall equipment and if there is any collateral damage to the equipment due to the failure of the breaker you are left purchasing a new piece of equipment. Typically if a failure of a breaker damages the panel, switchboard/gear,etc... the manufacturer typically will work with you to cover the cost of repairing the equipment.
The best question is how much liability are you willing to assume.
5-15kV breakers and 600V ANSI Air Frame breakers are designed so they can be re-conditioned or completely disassembled and rebuilt. There are a number of companies as well as the OEM that will rebuild these breakers.
Molded Case breakers are not designed to be reconditioned or "re-built". The cases are epoxy sealed and designed to be tamper-proof. There there are no parts or repair bulletins made available by the OEM's for anyone to refer to to ensure the proper parts are replaced and the interior mechanical tolerances are maintained.
I have personally been involved in situations where "NIB" breakers have been purchased from companies dealing in used and surplus breakers. I have seen doctored labels, breakers that showed they had been exposed to excessive heating on the terminals, breakers that have been exposed to water due to a fire or flooding. Granted some breakers may come from inventory from a bankruptcy or closing, however as these units are all puchased 2nd hand there is no guarantee what the breakers have been exposed to.
My first recommendation is that the breaker is puchased through an authorized OEM channel. If that is not feasible due to the availability of an older breaker, I would recommend that you obtain the services of a testing firm that can perform tests per NETA standards on any "used" breaker.
Most customers are not apt to accept "used" breakers when they are still available from the OEM, and will be highly upset if they find out after the fact.
Also you need to keep in mind the OEM's warranty. Most OEM's warranties state that if devices are installed that are purchased outside the proper channel, it voids the warranty on the overall equipment and if there is any collateral damage to the equipment due to the failure of the breaker you are left purchasing a new piece of equipment. Typically if a failure of a breaker damages the panel, switchboard/gear,etc... the manufacturer typically will work with you to cover the cost of repairing the equipment.
The best question is how much liability are you willing to assume.
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