Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

[aelectricalman]

Residential -- Is it still legal to use a 14/3wg or a 12-3w/g wire in a pan fan box? This box supplies 8cuin. Why would the inspector frown on it. He does not like it. Can someone please help me, I'm not good with my sizing.

 

[apauling]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

the 4" pancakes i have seen do not say they are rated for 8".

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

What do they say, just out of curiosity?

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

It just seems that there should be no problem with these boxes being rated to hold a light and a ceiling fan controlled by separate switches. Hence, its called a "Pan Fan". Surely they dont expect you not to place a light kit on the "fan"

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

Just like Paul said, they are not listed with that much cubic inch volume. It violates 314.16 for box fill.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

Thank you for your insight and direction, although I would still like to see more replies on the subject.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

Im sorry, my box stated 6" not 8".

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

Check out 410.10 and let me know if you think I can put a 14-2 in a pancake box rated at 3.5 cu. in.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

YES, if there is proper space for your connections inside the canopy. Otherwise, no. That helps alittle more.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

Since it is not listed on the previous page in the chart on 314.16, do I just follow the provision you pointed out. Using the chart I assume that since a 12.5 cu in box will hold 6 #14 conductors, that my 6 cu in box will hold 3 #14 conductors. If that is the case, im at 4 conductors which does me in.

 

[apauling]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

remember to add the ground wires as one wire count. (no ribbing Ryan).

there are nice saddle boxes rated for fans when directly under ceiling joist. the large fan rated pan boxes are good for 14-2.

paul

 

[iwire]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

Originally posted by aelectricalman:
Since it is not listed on the previous page in the chart on 314.16, do I just follow the provision you pointed out.

Ace you have to look at Table 314.16(B) which tells us that each 14 AWG conductor need 2.0 cubic inches.

It just seems that there should be no problem with these boxes being rated to hold a light and a ceiling fan controlled by separate switches. Hence, its called a "Pan Fan". Surely they dont expect you not to place a light kit on the "fan"

They do not know what your going to do with it, you are the electrician it is up to you to use the products correctly.

A typical 4" square box has seventeen 1/2" knockouts, that does not mean you can bring a 14/3 into all seventeen knockouts.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

The pancake is stamped 6 cu in.While most inspectors allow a 12-2 or even a 12-3 they are not legal.Only legal use would be a 14-2
Many try to argue that the fan has a canopy but since it is not stamped for cubes we cant use it.Also think what we have if we blank it off.So bottom line is the inspector is giving you a break if he lets you violate the cubes.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

Many try to argue that the fan has a canopy but since it is not stamped for cubes we cant use it.

If tested, then I would say that you'd need to calculate and mark the volume of the canopy to meet 314.16(A). It doesn't say "factory marked" volume, it says "marked" volume. To flatly say you can't use the canopy isn't entirely correct, and not in keeping with 314.16(A) or 410.10. They both make mention of the final, installed volume.

Not to say I could accurately determine the volume of a canopy with a gun to my head...

[ December 22, 2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

Originally posted by apauling:
remember to add the ground wires as one wire count. (no ribbing Ryan).

paul

 

[physis]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

A typical 4" square box has seventeen 1/2" knockouts, that does not mean you can bring a 14/3 into all seventeen knockouts.

Well that sort a takes the challenge out of it!

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Using a 14-3 wire in a pan fan box!

Originally posted by iwire
A typical 4" square box has seventeen 1/2" knockouts, that does not mean you can bring a 14/3 into all seventeen knockouts.