Using building steel to bond water entrance

[dean4766]

Can I use the heavy gauge steel wall framing to bond to water entrance pipe at the water room and then bond to the same heavy gauge steel framed wall at the main electrical panel, this building has wood trusses and some steel vertical piers?

 

[roger]

Does the metal framing meet the requirements of 250.52(A)(2)?

Roger

 

[dean4766]

I’m not using building steel as a grounding electrode, but as a conductor (250.68c2)to interconnect electrodes,Cold water,ufer,groun rods.Would you not agree

 

[petersonra]

I’m not using building steel as a grounding electrode, but as a conductor (250.68c2)to interconnect electrodes,Cold water,ufer,groun rods.Would you not agree

The paragraph you cite is moderately ambiguous overall but I am inclined to agree with your interpretation that the building metal structural frame can be used as both a GEC or a bonding conductor between GEs, because it says that. This sentence seems unequivocal.

250.68(C)
(2) The metal structural frame of a building shall be permitted
to be used as a conductor to interconnect electrodes
that are part of the grounding electrode system, or as a
grounding electrode conductor.

However, your OP uses this phrasing "heavy gauge steel wall framing ". I don't know if the "heavy gauge steel wall framing" you refer to meets the requirements to be part of the metal structural frame or not.

 

[texie]

I'm understanding the OP to say he is referring to heavy drywall framing not a red iron steel building frame. If so that would not comply.

 

[petersonra]

I'm understanding the OP to say he is referring to heavy drywall framing not a red iron steel building frame. If so that would not comply.

That would have been my guess too given the way he worded his OP. But since the OP was not real specific it is hard to tell what he meant by what he wrote. it would seem to me that if the metal pieces he refers to hold up the roof, it probably qualifies as part of the metal structure of the building. if it is just there as someplace to hang dry wall, likely not.

 

[dean4766]

since I’m an electrician and not a structural engineering i do not know if holds up the roof or not it is an exterior wall that is continuous from water room to electrical room so it seems to me that 250.68b applies to what I was asking in my original question.in any building on the exterior walls your going to have columns in the corners and maybe in the center of the space and then drywall framing between, which in this case happens to be the heavy gauge steel that I talked about, whether it holds up the roof or has columns that go into the ground 8 or 10’ more is irreverent, the fact I have a effective ground path between the cold water pipe and the main electrical panel is the intent of this article

 

[petersonra]

since I’m an electrician and not a structural engineering i do not know if holds up the roof or not it is an exterior wall that is continuous from water room to electrical room so it seems to me that 250.68b applies to what I was asking in my original question.in any building on the exterior walls your going to have columns in the corners and maybe in the center of the space and then drywall framing between, which in this case happens to be the heavy gauge steel that I talked about, whether it holds up the roof or has columns that go into the ground 8 or 10’ more is irreverent, the fact I have a effective ground path between the cold water pipe and the main electrical panel is the intent of this article

You may very well have an effective path but it may not meet the requirements for serving as the bonding conductor.

 

[dean4766]

How so

 

[petersonra]

How so

The steel is either structural or it isn't. If it's structural then you can use it as a bonding conductor. If it's not structural you can't use it as a bonding conductor.

 

[infinity]

The steel is either structural or it isn't. If it's structural then you can use it as a bonding conductor. If it's not structural you can't use it as a bonding conductor.

I agree, from the descriptions in this thread the steel involved is not structural steel.

 

[Malywr]

I agree, from the descriptions in this thread the steel involved is not structural steel.

In first post he set it is steel framing
I assume it is structural
Could be steel frame with wood trusses and light steel across walls for siding outside and sheet rock inside
If he is not sure if beams are solidly connected together better run own conductor or do more deep research that could be tricky.

 

[wwhitney]

I'm understanding the OP to say he is referring to heavy drywall framing not a red iron steel building frame. If so that would not comply.

The phrase 250.68(C)(2) uses is " metal structural frame of a building". Does something tell us that means only a red iron steel building frame? Seems to me the wording would also cover a building with cold formed steel load bearing framing (not just partition walls that only support wallboard).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[petersonra]

The phrase 250.68(C)(2) uses is " metal structural frame of a building". Does something tell us that means only a red iron steel building frame? Seems to me the wording would also cover a building with cold formed steel load bearing framing (not just partition walls that only support wallboard).

Cheers, Wayne

I would take load bearing steel to be structural and thus qualifying.

 

[LarryFine]

Side question: Could a second lead brought out from an UFER electrode be used at the water service?

 

[roger]

Side question: Could a second lead brought out from an UFER electrode be used at the water service?

IMO, if everything was sized for the maximum GEC required I say yes.


Roger

 

[LarryFine]

IMO, if everything was sized for the maximum GEC required I say yes.

So, as long as both wires (service to foundation and foundation to water pipe) were large enough for the water pipe ground, you'd consider the foundation itself as a qualifying conductor between them? Is there a GEC size-equivalent limit?

Doing this could be more practical and cost-effective than running a GEC over a long distance. You'd just have to plan ahead.

 

[petersonra]

The code does not allow a CEE to serve as a bonding conductor. The only thing other than a wire conductor that is allowed is metal structure that qualifies per previous mentioned code allowances. I think you can also use a bus bar as part of the bonding conductor.

 

[gadfly56]

since I’m an electrician and not a structural engineering i do not know if holds up the roof or not it is an exterior wall that is continuous from water room to electrical room so it seems to me that 250.68b applies to what I was asking in my original question.in any building on the exterior walls your going to have columns in the corners and maybe in the center of the space and then drywall framing between, which in this case happens to be the heavy gauge steel that I talked about, whether it holds up the roof or has columns that go into the ground 8 or 10’ more is irreverent, the fact I have a effective ground path between the cold water pipe and the main electrical panel is the intent of this article

These are the panels that form the building exterior walls, correct? If yes, then I don't think they qualify.

 

[texie]

Side question: Could a second lead brought out from an UFER electrode be used at the water service?

There is new language in the 2020 edition at 250.53(C) that prohibits this.