Using existing panel as a raceway

J

jeramiepluemer

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Electrician
Why in 2012 could we use the main panel (which will soon be a sub panel) as a raceway for the newly pulled wires from the meter for the generator whole house transfer switch so we can use the exist conduit and openings and Mount t switch next to panel inside but not in the 2017 NEC. If there is room and fill is followed. Hope this makes sense. All inspectors in my area say I can use panel as a raceway and run wire from meter socket through existing panel to t switch. Please help me with this. I am not getting clarification. Says it passes because of word play
 
The issue you're encountering regarding the use of a panel as a raceway for wires from a generator transfer switch is rooted in changes and interpretations of the National Electrical Code (NEC) over time.

2012 NEC vs. 2017 NEC​

In the 2012 NEC, there was more flexibility in using a panel as a raceway under certain conditions. Specifically, Article 312.8 allowed for conductors to feed through, splice, or tap off to other enclosures, switches, or overcurrent devices, provided that:
  1. The total of all conductors installed at any cross-section of the wiring space did not exceed 40% of the cross-sectional area of that space.
  2. The total area of all conductors, splices, and taps installed at any cross-section of the wiring space did not exceed 75% of the cross-sectional area of that space.
  3. A warning label was applied to the enclosure that identified the closest disconnecting means for any feed-through conductors.
However, by the 2017 NEC, the interpretation and application of these rules became stricter. The 2017 NEC emphasizes that raceways must be continuous between enclosures and that conductors in raceways must be continuous between outlets, boxes, devices, and so forth. This stricter interpretation means that using a panel as a raceway is generally not allowed unless it meets very specific conditions and is explicitly permitted.

UL Listing and Code Compliance​

Another critical factor is the UL listing of the panel. Electrical equipment, including panels, must be installed and used in accordance with their UL listing. Panels are typically not UL-listed for use as raceways, so using them in this manner would be a violation of the code.

Inspector Discretion and Local Interpretations​

The enforcement of these rules can vary by inspector and local jurisdiction. Some inspectors may allow the use of a panel as a raceway if it meets certain conditions, such as not exceeding the fill limits and having proper labeling. However, others may strictly adhere to the interpretation that panels should not be used as raceways at all.

Conclusion​

The ability to use a panel as a raceway in 2012 was more permissible under the NEC, provided certain conditions were met. By 2017, the code and its interpretations became stricter, making it less likely to be allowed. Always consult with your local inspector and adhere to their interpretation of the code to ensure compliance and safety.

If it helps, Please click like button to encourage me to contribute more for the community.
 
jeramiepluemer said:
Why in 2012 could we use the main panel (which will soon be a sub panel) as a raceway for the newly pulled wires from the meter for the generator whole house transfer switch so we can use the exist conduit and openings and Mount t switch next to panel inside but not in the 2017 NEC. If there is room and fill is followed. Hope this makes sense. All inspectors in my area say I can use panel as a raceway and run wire from meter socket through existing panel to t switch. Please help me with this. I am not getting clarification. Says it passes because of word play
Click to expand...
See 312.8
 
BillyRCCE said:
The issue you're encountering regarding the use of a panel as a raceway for wires from a generator transfer switch is rooted in changes and interpretations of the National Electrical Code (NEC) over time.

2012 NEC vs. 2017 NEC​

In the 2012 NEC, there was more flexibility in using a panel as a raceway under certain conditions. Specifically, Article 312.8 allowed for conductors to feed through, splice, or tap off to other enclosures, switches, or overcurrent devices, provided that:
  1. The total of all conductors installed at any cross-section of the wiring space did not exceed 40% of the cross-sectional area of that space.
  2. The total area of all conductors, splices, and taps installed at any cross-section of the wiring space did not exceed 75% of the cross-sectional area of that space.
  3. A warning label was applied to the enclosure that identified the closest disconnecting means for any feed-through conductors.
However, by the 2017 NEC, the interpretation and application of these rules became stricter. The 2017 NEC emphasizes that raceways must be continuous between enclosures and that conductors in raceways must be continuous between outlets, boxes, devices, and so forth. This stricter interpretation means that using a panel as a raceway is generally not allowed unless it meets very specific conditions and is explicitly permitted.

UL Listing and Code Compliance​

Another critical factor is the UL listing of the panel. Electrical equipment, including panels, must be installed and used in accordance with their UL listing. Panels are typically not UL-listed for use as raceways, so using them in this manner would be a violation of the code.

Inspector Discretion and Local Interpretations​

The enforcement of these rules can vary by inspector and local jurisdiction. Some inspectors may allow the use of a panel as a raceway if it meets certain conditions, such as not exceeding the fill limits and having proper labeling. However, others may strictly adhere to the interpretation that panels should not be used as raceways at all.

Conclusion​

The ability to use a panel as a raceway in 2012 was more permissible under the NEC, provided certain conditions were met. By 2017, the code and its interpretations became stricter, making it less likely to be allowed. Always consult with your local inspector and adhere to their interpretation of the code to ensure compliance and safety.

If it helps, Please click like button to encourage me to contribute more for the community.
Click to expand...
Panel isn't consider a raceway is it
 
jeramiepluemer said:
Mike Holt says we can't use it as a pass through. Inspectors all over here say we can. Guess asking a questions on here is just a waste of time. Egos on here are super huge . Nvm.... this is why I very seldom post on here or ask any questions.
Click to expand...
The issue is probably the type of conductors not the action of using the panel as a raceway.

It sounds like you want to splice the existing service conductor and extend them through the existing panel into a new service rated transfer switch.
I cant really follow the OP, too many abbreviations and slang,
 
jeramiepluemer said:
Mike Holt says we can't use it as a pass through. Inspectors all over here say we can. Guess asking a questions on here is just a waste of time. Egos on here are super huge . Nvm.... this is why I very seldom post on here or ask any questions.
Click to expand...
Where does Mike say it can't be used as a pass through? You can run the service conductors from the meter though the old main panel to the new transfer switch in the 2011 code or the 2023 code. However, they cannot be in a common raceway. The panel enclosure is not a raceway.
(2011 code) 312.8 Switch and Overcurrent Device Enclosures with Splices, Taps, and Feed-Through Conductors.
The wiring space of enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall be permitted for conductors feeding through, spliced, or tapping off to other enclosures, switches, or overcurrent devices where all of the following conditions are met:

(1) The total of all conductors installed at any cross section of the wiring space does not exceed 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.
(2) The total area of all conductors, splices, and taps installed at any cross section of the wiring space does not exceed 75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.
(3) A warning label is applied to the enclosure that identifies the closest disconnecting means for any feed-through conductors.
Click to expand...
(2023 code)
312.8 Switch and Overcurrent Device Enclosures.

The wiring space within enclosures for switches and overcurrent devices shall be permitted for other wiring and equipment subject to limitations for specific equipment as provided in 312.8(A) and (B).
(A) Splices, Taps, and Feed-Through Conductors.
The wiring space of enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall be permitted for conductors feeding through, spliced, or tapping off to other enclosures, switches, or overcurrent devices where all of the following conditions are met:

(1) The total of all conductors installed at any cross section of the wiring space does not exceed 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.(2) The total area of all conductors, splices, and taps installed at any cross section of the wiring space does not exceed 75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.(3) The bending space for conductors 4 AWG and larger complies with 314.28(A)(2.
(4) A warning label complying with 110.21(B) is applied to the enclosure that identifies the closest disconnecting means for any feed-through conductors.
Click to expand...
What do you see as being permitted in the 2011 code that is not permitted in the 2023?
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Where does Mike say it can't be used as a pass through? You can run the service conductors from the meter though the old main panel to the new transfer switch in the 2011 code or the 2023 code. However, they cannot be in a common raceway. The panel enclosure is not a raceway.


What do you see as being permitted in the 2011 code that is not permitted in the 2023?
Click to expand...
 
Mike Holt Enterprises

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realise it was in the 2017 NEC, so NO it's not permitted.
 
BillyRCCE said:
The issue you're encountering regarding the use of a panel as a raceway for wires from a generator transfer switch is rooted in changes and interpretations of the National Electrical Code (NEC) over time.

2012 NEC vs. 2017 NEC​

In the 2012 NEC, there was more flexibility in using a panel as a raceway under certain conditions. Specifically, Article 312.8 allowed for conductors to feed through, splice, or tap off to other enclosures, switches, or overcurrent devices, provided that:
  1. The total of all conductors installed at any cross-section of the wiring space did not exceed 40% of the cross-sectional area of that space.
  2. The total area of all conductors, splices, and taps installed at any cross-section of the wiring space did not exceed 75% of the cross-sectional area of that space.
  3. A warning label was applied to the enclosure that identified the closest disconnecting means for any feed-through conductors.
However, by the 2017 NEC, the interpretation and application of these rules became stricter. The 2017 NEC emphasizes that raceways must be continuous between enclosures and that conductors in raceways must be continuous between outlets, boxes, devices, and so forth. This stricter interpretation means that using a panel as a raceway is generally not allowed unless it meets very specific conditions and is explicitly permitted.

UL Listing and Code Compliance​

Another critical factor is the UL listing of the panel. Electrical equipment, including panels, must be installed and used in accordance with their UL listing. Panels are typically not UL-listed for use as raceways, so using them in this manner would be a violation of the code.

Inspector Discretion and Local Interpretations​

The enforcement of these rules can vary by inspector and local jurisdiction. Some inspectors may allow the use of a panel as a raceway if it meets certain conditions, such as not exceeding the fill limits and having proper labeling. However, others may strictly adhere to the interpretation that panels should not be used as raceways at all.

Conclusion​

The ability to use a panel as a raceway in 2012 was more permissible under the NEC, provided certain conditions were met. By 2017, the code and its interpretations became stricter, making it less likely to be allowed. Always consult with your local inspector and adhere to their interpretation of the code to ensure compliance and safety.

If it helps, Please click like button to encourage me to contribute more for the community.
Click to expand...
It does, but it should be straightforward when dealing with this. Panel Not designed for it makes sense also
 
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