using gfi breaker to replace ungrounded outlets with grounded

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Stevenfyeager

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Location
United States, Indiana
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electrical contractor
I've always heard that jurisdictions allow replacing two hole outlets with three hole grounded ones if you gfci protect them. But this inspector will not pass it if his hand held tester will not trip them. This is similar to a post I posted some time back, but a little different. Last time I tried replacing them with gfci outltets, it didn't pass his inspection. This time, I tried using gfci breakeres. Still, the same problem, the hand held tester will not trip them. I'm at a loss.
 
If you got no egc then how the ^6#4 does he think it will trip when he press the button.
That why a gfci has to be there cause you don’t have a ground. He an idiot
 
But this inspector will not pass it if his hand held tester will not trip them.
He doesn't understand how plug-in GFCI testers work. They will not trip without an EGC.

If he were to use a grounding adapter with a grounded pigtail, it would trip the GFCI.

The inspector is wrong to use the plug-in tester as a determination in the first place.
 
One time is understandable but sounds like he making it a problem for you. Show him in the instructions how it’s required to be test and the plug in tester are not part of the manufacturer instructions. If that does not work fight it, he will either be less likely to mess with you or fight on everything lol
 
To add, the reason the test button on a plug-in tester doesn't work with no EGC is:

A GFCI device has access to both line conductors within the device, and test-mimics a shock by connecting a resistor to the hot wire after the current sensor to the neutral ahead of the sensor.

A plug-in tester only has access to both line conductors after the current sensor, so can only mimic a shock by connecting its internal test resistor between the hot wire and the circuit EGC.

For those dealing with (home) inspectors who use a plug-in tester: Use a grounding "cheater" and extend the green wire with an alligator clip on the other end, clipped to a known ground.

If the plug-in tester worked, it would be because the receptacle had an EGC, making the GFCI unnecessary.
 
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Is this a 'home inspector' or someone associated with actual code enforcement?
This is the primary question. If this person is an actual AHJ, then point out that there is no NEC requirement for the plug-in tester. None whatsoever, full stop. If there is some local amendment requiring this, then someone should fight that issue, because it is going to cause almost EVERY home built before 1974 to require FULL REWIRING.

The requirement for a GEC was added in 1971, with full implementation required by 1974. So if the house was built prior to that full enforcement requirement and does not have EGCs in the wiring method, it would have PASSED CODE at that time and is thereby “grandfathered” in so long as not altered or added to.

If this person is a realtor prescribed transaction contractor or just someone requested by a homeowner, he is a nincompoop and needs education per the above. He cannot require that a house be fully rewired. It’s also something you can ignore in your job, so long as YOU followed Code requirements. In other words in this situation, YOU are the legal Code enforcement authority (assuming you are licensed).

Just so you know however, PART of the Code allowance for using a GFCI in lieu of an EGC (NEC Article 406.4(D)(2)) is that ALL outlets must be LABELED stating that there is “No Equipment Ground”. Most GFCI receptacles come with that label in the package. If you do it with a GFCI breaker, or have one master GFCI receptacle protecting multiple outlets, you need to make and apply your own labels.

Final edit: if the house WAS built after 1974 and has EGCs, but the ground connection is BROKEN somewhere, then that is a different issue that must be addressed. Also, if you ADDED ON to an existing ungrounded circuit as part of NEW PERMITTED CONSTRUCTION, then you screwed up. You would have needed a new Hone Run with an EGC back to the panel and ground bar.
 
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He doesn't understand how plug-in GFCI testers work. They will not trip without an EGC.

If he were to use a grounding adapter with a grounded pigtail, it would trip the GFCI.

The inspector is wrong to use the plug-in tester as a determination in the first place.
Just to add to this, it is perfectly acceptable to use the TEST button on the face of a GFCI receptacle, or on the GFCI breaker. That SHOULD WORK even if there is no EGC. If it doesn’t, then that’s a different problem that must be addressed.
 
Thank you all ! I've read 406.4 (D) 2 (c) and see I need to label "GFCI protected" and "No equipment ground" to each receptacle. This elec inspector is very strict, but thanks to you all, I see that the NEC reads very clear. I respect this inspector and we have a good 28 year relationship, I'm hoping it goes well.
 
I do now recall that 5 years ago when his tester failed to trip the outlet and he made me run a new wire to it, that it was a kitchen countertop outlet. That may be a different case than these living room and bedroom outlets.
 
Thank you all ! I've read 406.4 (D) 2 (c) and see I need to label "GFCI protected" and "No equipment ground" to each receptacle. This elec inspector is very strict, but thanks to you all, I see that the NEC reads very clear. I respect this inspector and we have a good 28 year relationship, I'm hoping it goes well.
Strict would be if he won't budge on a grey area, this is just wrong, if he says something again kindly tell him no, and if he gets mad go over his head.
 
I do now recall that 5 years ago when his tester failed to trip the outlet and he made me run a new wire to it, that it was a kitchen countertop outlet. That may be a different case than these living room and bedroom outlets.
Take a look at 250.114...I might want to see an EGC to the kitchen receptacles too.
That rule is the real reason the code requires the "no equipment grounding conductor" sticker, but very few actually know that
 
GFCI/AFCI are "magic", when used on two wire "Romex". There is no ground available. They are old, and unsafe wiring methods and should be replaced. Some insurance companies will not insure them, and some will insure them with much higher rate. Bottom line, they are unsafe.
 
I see no problem with old two wire. A 69 Camaro is old still. Old is not the problem. With everything in the house now day pex I see no problem.
Unsafe ehhhhh once again depends what it feeds
 
GFCI/AFCI are "magic", when used on two wire "Romex". There is no ground available. They are old, and unsafe wiring methods and should be replaced. Some insurance companies will not insure them, and some will insure them with much higher rate. Bottom line, they are unsafe.
Disagree. Very few electrical and electronic loads come with grounding plugs these days.
 
I've always heard that jurisdictions allow replacing two hole outlets with three hole grounded ones if you gfci protect them. But this inspector will not pass it if his hand held tester will not trip them. This is similar to a post I posted some time back, but a little different. Last time I tried replacing them with gfci outltets, it didn't pass his inspection. This time, I tried using gfci breakeres. Still, the same problem, the hand held tester will not trip them. I'm at a loss.
Have him read the first paragraph on the second page of the link below. All manufactures of these types of analysers have similar wording. IOW's he needs to use the right tool for the job which is the devices on board test button.

 
Have him read the first paragraph on the second page of the link below. All manufactures of these types of analysers have similar wording. IOW's he needs to use the right tool for the job which is the devices on board test button.

Thank you so much !! "when testing GFCIs in 2 - wire systems, the tester may give a false indication....the GFCI button test function will demonstrate proper operation." Thank you ! Still not sure how it will go with my inspector, but hoping....
 
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