Using masonry for boxes....

[Mule]

Ok, I'm fully aware this isnt code compliant, but we did it anyway. We had to install a series of convience outlest behind paintings in a museum. The outlet had to be super low profile to avoid touching valuable paintings. The outlets where for light fixtures that are attached to the painting frames....

Here's what we did as per the owners instruction....

On a solid masonry wall, we drilled a 2 1/2" diameter hole with a core bit 2'' deep. Over the hole we installed a shallow 3/4'' Wire Mold extension
box. In the Wire Mold extension box we installed a clock recept that is recessed. We used #14 awg stranded and crimp spades and protected the circuits with 15 amp breakers. The only connection we had in these boxes was a single yellow wire nut that pigtailed the ground tails fastened to the back plate of the extension box and the clock recept. We tucked the single wire nut in the corner of the extension box.

We did approx 50 of these installations and it worked very well for the application. Im fully aware that it doesnt meet code, nor is it UL listing compliant, but it does meet the intent of the code IMO as there is no way it can catch on fire.

Ok, I've got my bullet proof vest on now, fire away....

 

[rob12013]

you should patten you idea stone device enclosure it don't catch fire

 

[LEO2854]

Ok, I'm fully aware this isnt code compliant, but we did it anyway. We had to install a series of convience outlest behind paintings in a museum. The outlet had to be super low profile to avoid touching valuable paintings. The outlets where for light fixtures that are attached to the painting frames....

Here's what we did as per the owners instruction....

On a solid masonry wall, we drilled a 2 1/2" diameter hole with a core bit 2'' deep. Over the hole we installed a shallow 3/4'' Wire Mold extension
box. In the Wire Mold extension box we installed a clock recept that is recessed. We used #14 awg stranded and crimp spades and protected the circuits with 15 amp breakers. The only connection we had in these boxes was a single yellow wire nut that pigtailed the ground tails fastened to the back plate of the extension box and the clock recept. We tucked the single wire nut in the corner of the extension box.

We did approx 50 of these installations and it worked very well for the application. Im fully aware that it doesnt meet code, nor is it UL listing compliant, but it does meet the intent of the code IMO as there is no way it can catch on fire.

Ok, I've got my bullet proof vest on now, fire away....

How does it not meet the code

 

[infinity]

So the back of the clock receptacle is installed in a 2.5" round box made of brick.

There has to be a better (code compliant) way to do this.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I guess you can't argue that the enclosed setup is fireproof, however I am sure someone would turn this down. What wiring method is used? Pipe from the back side and the pipe just ends????

I guess I would have opted to cut in a box but I do realize it would be a bear in solid masonry.

 

[jmellc]

I fix far worse things than that all the time.

Check out the Arlington Hole Saw Box, for devices & sconce lights. Takes a 3.25" hole, a pain for core drilling I know. Someone may have a similar product in a smaller size. If not, they should. I'm sure you won't be the last person needing that.

I think I've seen a single floor outlet that uses a 2" hole, is self contained. But it's probably deeper than the wall.

 

[growler]

On a solid masonry wall, we drilled a 2 1/2" diameter hole with a core bit 2'' deep. Over the hole we installed a shallow 3/4'' Wire Mold extension
box.

I only have a question. If you are going to drill a 2 1/2" diameter hole with a core bit that is 2" deep then why not core a hole big enough for a round box that 2 or 2 1/2" deep. The cost should be about the same.

But you are right and I don't see anything wrong with the way you did things so long as you can get special permisssion and approval from the local authorities. With all the valuable art work I would probably put these on arc fault breakers ( protect the light fixtures ).

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I only have a question. If you are going to drill a 2 1/2" diameter hole with a core bit that is 2" deep then why not core a hole big enough for a round box that 2 or 2 1/2" deep. The cost should be about the same.

But you are right and I don't see anything wrong with the way you did things so long as you can get special permisssion and approval from the local authorities. With all the valuable art work I would probably put these on arc fault breakers ( protect the light fixtures ).

The problem is finding a round box that will support a clock type receptacle.

 

[Mule]

We looked at drilling a larger (round) hole for a box, but it was larger that the wiremold box to go over it. The wiring method was wiremold, both 500 and 700 series......The wall is solid concrete not brick.

 

[Mule]

With all the valuable art work I would probably put these on arc fault breakers ( protect the light fixtures ).

That's a fantastic idea......These fixtures have small lamp cords and that would be perfect.....Thanks

 

[wireguy8169]

Interesting, I once did a job where the home was a 1700's house, "Oley Forge" the guys that bought it were antique dealers of that period (mainly), well in the spec's there were to be no receptacles visable and if they were to be visable they had to be unnoticable, no wall switches (everythign was on remote) they were keeping the existing plaster and having some people from the smithsonian come in to make sure everything was done to period. It was the coolest residential project I ever did, but definitly trying. Anyhow, we did get lots of approvals for work we did and Im guess these guys had some connections cause it went through pretty easy, but was all safe as they would have nothing less. Funny what you can come up with and even though it may not be too exact code if it meets the reasoning I see few reasons why it should not be allowed. (mostly) Nice idea

 

[iwire]

Is it safe, I bet it is.

Would I do this in anyplace other than my own home (if I had cement walls:grin not a snowballs chance in ....

Until you die you could be held liable for any damages arising from that installation and would not have a leg to stand on.

 

[wireguy8169]

iwire,


I had a conversation recently and the person stated "as long as I am code compliant I am good to go", I did not disagree but stated myself "the code is only a minimum standard and if you do something that even though its up to code, there is a chance you could be held liable" I do realize if you have a lawyer that can manipulate the facts and work magic to a judge or jury you could lose know matter how compliant.

My point to her was code is a good starting point but definitly not the end all to ever install....

Not to hijack the thread but would the statement "Code Compliant" save you...so to speak...

 

[iwire]

iwire,


I had a conversation recently and the person stated "as long as I am code compliant I am good to go", I did not disagree but stated myself "the code is only a minimum standard and if you do something that even though its up to code, there is a chance you could be held liable" I do realize if you have a lawyer that can manipulate the facts and work magic to a judge or jury you could lose know matter how compliant.

My point to her was code is a good starting point but definitly not the end all to ever install....

Not to hijack the thread but would the statement "Code Compliant" save you...so to speak...

I am certainly no lawyer and I am of the belief that code compliance and inspections do not shield the electrician from liability if the work they did caused a problem

However I think you have no chance in heck of prevailing when you knowingly and repeatedly (50 times) violate the long standing code rules.


No one should take the above as 'qualified legal advice'.

 

[Mule]

I am certainly no lawyer and I am of the belief that code compliance and inspections do not shield the electrician from liability if the work they did caused a problem

However I think you have no chance in heck of prevailing when you knowingly and repeatedly (50 times) violate the long standing code rules.


No one should take the above as 'qualified legal advice'.

See there Bob, your scared of your own words.....We all live in a "its somebody elese's fault" world.....I admit I'm naive living here in conservative country as most of time we dont worry about being sued everytime you turn around. Just shake a man's hand, and do the best you can and he'll respect you for it...I've been at this for 35+ years and I've never been sued or had anything I've done harm anyone or catch on fire that Im aware of.

To me.....the difference in a UL rated and a non UL rated part is someone paid the money for UL to bless something to be idiot proof.....

Bob I really agree with you, but I just dont stake my life on legalities..