Using ph-ph 220 volts on a circuit breaker designed for 220volts ph-neu

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Elmeco OOE

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Hi,
I'm doing this installation for a client and he received a compressor for an a/c which is a European one and comes with a c/b on which it is written 220 volts phase to neutral. I was wondering if i can feed it with the standard 220 phase to phase voltage.
Have any of you have had similar issues and what problems you think it might cause.
Thank you for your replies.
 
Take this with a grain of salt, but based on a similar condition covered in 240.85, I'd say you didn't have a problem.
 
Elmeco OOE said:
...standard 220 phase to phase voltage.
...
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Gus (augie47) may be correct.

Typical EU equipment is designed for 50Hz. Is your standard 220 voltage there 50Hz or 60Hz? I'm not a compressor person, but I don't believe 50Hz compressors like 60Hz supplies.

Check to make certain there is no bonding between the designated neutral and the chassis.
 
Elmeco OOE said:
Hi,
I'm doing this installation for a client and he received a compressor for an a/c which is a European one and comes with a c/b on which it is written 220 volts phase to neutral. I was wondering if i can feed it with the standard 220 phase to phase voltage.
Have any of you have had similar issues and what problems you think it might cause.
Thank you for your replies.
Click to expand...
First off, 220V elsewhere in the world is derived from a 3 phase Wye 380V system by going phase to neutral. So a breaker used for that would typically be a SINGLE POLE breaker. 240V here in N. America requires a TWO POLE breaker. So before you go any further, check that out. Even if it LOOKS like a 2 pole breaker, they sometimes use one that has a solid neutral, i.e. no trip sensing. You can't use that here, all ungrounded conductors require protection. It's possible that they used a true 2P breaker and were switching the Neutral through the 2nd pole, but that may be something you don't want to do here. But as mentioned by Smart $, you REALLY need to investigate the entire internal electrical circuit of the machine before you jump to any conclusions. It's unlikely that they bonded their Neutral to the machine ground, but not unheard of.

People buy or import machines from other countries because they think they are getting a bargain, then they want some EC to hook it up here, but never consider that they were never DESIGNED to be hooked up here. Years ago I worked at a place that, as a side business, would take in imported used machinery and bring it up to UL / NEC standards. People were usually SHOCKED to discover how much it would cost them to have us do it, sometimes almost as much as they spent on the "bargain" machine. Had they bothered to investigate it first, they would have discovered that it was less expensive to just buy something made for use here.
 
Jraef said:
First off, 220V elsewhere in the world is derived from a 3 phase Wye 380V system by going phase to neutral. So a breaker used for that would typically be a SINGLE POLE breaker. 240V here in N. America requires a TWO POLE breaker. So before you go any further, check that out. Even if it LOOKS like a 2 pole breaker, they sometimes use one that has a solid neutral, i.e. no trip sensing. You can't use that here, all ungrounded conductors require protection. It's possible that they used a true 2P breaker and were switching the Neutral through the 2nd pole, but that may be something you don't want to do here. But as mentioned by Smart $, you REALLY need to investigate the entire internal electrical circuit of the machine before you jump to any conclusions. It's unlikely that they bonded their Neutral to the machine ground, but not unheard of.
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If you have a switching neutral breaker (no over current sensing) you can still use it with 2 live conductors provided it also has integral RCD protection.


People buy or import machines from other countries because they think they are getting a bargain, then they want some EC to hook it up here, but never consider that they were never DESIGNED to be hooked up here. Years ago I worked at a place that, as a side business, would take in imported used machinery and bring it up to UL / NEC standards. People were usually SHOCKED to discover how much it would cost them to have us do it, sometimes almost as much as they spent on the "bargain" machine. Had they bothered to investigate it first, they would have discovered that it was less expensive to just buy something made for use here.
Click to expand...

And while often true, a machine listed for 50/60Hz usually works out flawless. My main concern is the frequency. A 50Hz motor on 60Hz will be about 20% faster, and while that may not bother some things, a compressors application will put more burden on the motor.
 
ActionDave said:
I've not seen a two pole switched neutral. Do they exist?
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US or IEC style? The US style takes up two spaces yet it only draws power from one hot bus bar, the other space is as you guessed for switching the neutral. These breakers are required on gas pumps.


http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/Schneider-Electric-Square-D-QO220SWN-QO/13064

IEC breakers come in 1, 2 and 3 poles with over current, and each can be ordered with a 2, 3 or 4th pole for switching the neutral.

Here is a typical switching neutral breaker, the neutral will open at the same time as the hot either manually or automatically, however the neutral pole contains no over current. It is essential that the schematic symbol be checked on the breaker as it indicated what pole has over current (half square and half circle) and which does not (straight line below the switch symbol).
 
mbrooke said:
US or IEC style? The US style takes up two spaces yet it only draws power from one hot bus bar, the other space is as you guessed for switching the neutral. These breakers are required on gas pumps.


http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/Schneider-Electric-Square-D-QO220SWN-QO/13064

IEC breakers come in 1, 2 and 3 poles with over current, and each can be ordered with a 2, 3 or 4th pole for switching the neutral.

Here is a typical switching neutral breaker, the neutral will open at the same time as the hot either manually or automatically, however the neutral pole contains no over current. It is essential that the schematic symbol be checked on the breaker as it indicated what pole has over current (half square and half circle) and which does not (straight line below the switch symbol).
Click to expand...

I've seen those inside very large printers.
 
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