Using White wire for Traveler

[ampdsnoborder112]

According to NEC article 200.7 (C)(2) it mentions that where there is a cable assembly that contains an insulated conductor for single-pole, 3-way, or 4-way switch loops, the white wire can be used for the supply to the switch but not as the return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. What is not mentioned is whether or not it is permissable to use the white wire as a traveler? As an example, when the feed is in the fixture box and a 3-wire is run from the fixture box to each 3-way switch, which is a common installation technique in older homes in this location. I'm an electrical student, and this is a point of discussion in the class. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

The fact that a four way switch is even mentioned in 200.7(C)(2) leads me to beleive that it can be used as a traveller. After all, the only wires connected to a four way switch are travellers.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

Provided that you put phase tape on it i have never had an inspector say a word about it.

 

[mjf]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

My local inspector told me tape on white wire when hot is no longer okay - must use permanent marker and color it !!! Thats a whole lot of fun. :roll:

of course, can use wire with extra conductor and just cap white off.

[ March 11, 2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: mjf ]

 

[stew]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

and his code reference for the permanent marker was what? Or is the reference just in his own mind? The code I believe states it must be identified but it does not say whos brand of magic marker you have to use!!!

 

[websparky]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

There seems to be room for different methods of "permanent" re-identification.

In these applications, the conductor with white or gray insulation or with three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means at its terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible.

Since the AHJ is the one that gets to decide what is appropriate given the application, a marker, tape or paint could be acceptable.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

ampdsnoborder112,

Take a read of this 5 page thread on the subject. . .The last 3 pages will give you some fuel to throw in the fire.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

It`s the permanent thing is tape permanent ???I think no but I have passed allot of imspections with this same install.

 

[hbiss]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

Why would tape not be permanent enough for this application? If you apply it properly you would have to unwrap it. Seems to be good enough everywhere else including outdoors and in wet locations. What the heck do you think colored marker tape is for?

-Hal

 

[bennie]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

Show me a person who does not know the white wires are travelers when working on a 4 way switch and I'll show you someone who should leave it alone.

If we color code, number, and tag everything, then monkeys will take over

 

[midmich]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

Get ready Amp,everyone likes this topic. I try to not use the white as a traveller now. Most of the time we use 14-3 NM for our #-way switches and the ocasional 4 way. I save the scraps to use for other jobs to avoid the need to re identify. But when i have had to, the inspector said the same thing "color it with your marker. Notch the tip and you can just about do it in 1 pass.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

Alot of times when I do an inspection on residential, the builder will walk with me while I do the inspection. It is pretty common for a builder to carry a can of spray paint with them to paint the items that need to be addressed (bare in mind that I'm looking at all aspects of the house, so 20-50 items is common). When I see that white conductors need to be identified, I just have the builder shoot it with the spray paint! It works real well...unless they are using green paint.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

And just where do we buy UL listed paint or markers.UL listed tape is no problem.Can we paint wires ? I think not since that changes the insulation.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

Originally posted by jimwalker:
And just where do we buy UL listed paint or markers.UL listed tape is no problem.Can we paint wires ? I think not since that changes the insulation.

Jim: Who said the paint or markers have to be listed? And as far as your second comment goes, read this quote, taken right from the section we are talking about, with the BOLD added by me.

(2) Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications, the conductor with white or gray insulation or with three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means at its terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

RYAN thanks now that i have article to use i will save on tape.Wide red markers are far faster and cheaper.I was told years back that we can't paint wires,now have a code saying i can.

 

[mjf]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

Originally posted by midmich:
Notch the tip and you can just about do it in 1 pass.

One thing I love about this forum!! Never thought of notching the marker. Thanks for the idea, this will be quite a time saver.

 

[william runkle]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

You can drill a hole the size of the wire down the center of tip then push wire in and pull out completely covered just don't use green marker.

 

[midmich]

Re: Using White wire for Traveler

Your welcome Mike. I'll try anything {that the code will allow} to make my job quicker. The boss is always complaining about how long it takes to do a job. But then again don't they all! LOL