Vague manufacturer info

N

nizak

Senior Member
Looking to get power to a vehicle storage lift in an attached garage.

The spec sheet says “115V 20 amp 1Ph” for the power requirements.

from the panel with a new circuit involves running approximately 115’ through 3 sections of finished basement. 2 areas drop ceiling, one 12’ space drywall ceiling then into the garage and 20’ of 700 Wiremold.

I have an existing 120 V receptacle within 3’ of where the power pack plugs into.

That circuit currently has around 7 amps of load on it.

I do know it’s a 1HP motor but don’t know any other specs. Equipment is not on site but owner would like it ready when the installers come.

It operates a small hydraulic pump that turns the gear box.

In the past I’ve used Mfgr info stating the need for a dedicated circuit only to find a minimal amp draw once the equipment arrived.

Thoughts on how to handle this
 
What sort of load is the 7 amps? Is it likely to be used while the lift is in operation?
 
What's the current for a 1 HP, 120 VOLT motor? If it exceeds 50% of 20 amps then the fastened in place equipment cannot be on the circuit with other receptacles supplying not fastened in place loads. {210.23(A)(2)}
 
infinity said:
What's the current for a 1 HP, 120 VOLT motor? If it exceeds 50% of 20 amps then the fastened in place equipment cannot be on the circuit with other receptacles supplying not fastened in place loads. {210.23(A)(2)}
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That’s what I’m attempting to find out. Seems nowadays smaller motors don’t follow what we would know as traditional specs. I called the Mfgr and mentioned the nameplate data and they were baffled as to what I meant.

Take for instance using a SqD slide chart for motor amps doesn’t correspond with an electric power washer motor or an air compressor motor I have in the garage.
 
Barbqranch said:
What sort of load is the 7 amps? Is it likely to be used while the lift is in operation?
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The current load is a 3.2A refrigerator, a 1.7A beverage cooler and a couple amps of misc battery charging equipment.

No definite usage time for the lift. Once the car is up and in storage it could be months before it comes down.
 
nizak said:
That’s what I’m attempting to find out. Seems nowadays smaller motors don’t follow what we would know as traditional specs. I called the Mfgr and mentioned the nameplate data and they were baffled as to what I meant.

Take for instance using a SqD slide chart for motor amps doesn’t correspond with an electric power washer motor or an air compressor motor I have in the garage.
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If it's a true 1 HP then it cannot be on a 20 amp circuit shared with the other cord and pug equipment.
 
Here is the info I got from the Mfgr on the motor I was questioning.
Duty- Int.
Volt-115
Amp-20
PH-1
HZ-60
HP -2.5
Thermal protection- None

It’s a pre assembled cord and plug connected unit with a NEMA 5-20 male end.

Would this need to be a 30 amp circuit with thermal protection to operate it properly?
 
nizak said:
Here is the info I got from the Mfgr on the motor I was questioning.
Duty- Int.
Volt-115
Amp-20
PH-1
HZ-60
HP -2.5
Thermal protection- None

It’s a pre assembled cord and plug connected unit with a NEMA 5-20 male end.

Would this need to be a 30 amp circuit with thermal protection to operate it properly?
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Since it has a 20 amp plug it will need a 20 amp circuit. The 2.5 HP rating is bogus.
 
I don't know how the motor mfg. get away with this crap.

Years ago, I was sent to wire a "closed circuit cooler" For those that don't know it is similar to a water tower used to cool a chiller.

The new one was the same model as the one it was replacing. The idiots forgot to glycol it in the winter and it froze up, so it had to be replaced. Somehow (payola) the insurance company covered this.

Anyhow the old one had 2 30hp and 1 smaller spray pump motor. motors 480 v fed from a motor control center with starters and a MCP.

The new cooler showed up and I checked the motors and the name plate said they were 30hp Marathon's I think. But the new motors the amps were about 20 amps higher than the old motors.

I called Marathon I think they were in TN and started complaining. They told me they can basically put any HP on any motor they want to.
He admitted that they were 50 hp motors. They told me they were "out " of 30 hp.
I told them I was the electrician and the owner wasn't happy and neither was I as I would have to wire them to the name plate and it was going to cost a fortune. Bigger breakers, starters wire etc I don't remember about the pipe.

The rep for the cooling tower "Evapco" was 0 help .......until the owner refused to pay.

They sent a guy up from TN in a truck with new motors and he changed them out.

Marathon rambled on about the 50 hp only drawing 30hp worth of amps which maybe has some truth but why do we need to put up with that crap.

Of course, cooling season was starting and in the greater Boston area the rents are very high and those tenants were not going without cooling
 
infinity said:
The 2.5 HP rating is bogus.
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I refer to this as “marketing HP”, where their marketing dept. uses a “HP” value that is exaggerated by using short momentary torque values known as “breakdown torque” that is upward of 220% of full load torque, but can only be sustained for about 2-3 seconds before getting into the thermal damage curve of the motor. Horsepower is actually a mechanical power expression, not an electrical one, we just mutually all agree collectively to use full load mechanical values to base electrical values. Marketing departments for consumer products don’t seem to agree to that convention.

But they cannot exaggerate about the LISTING information, which is required to give the real electrical power values, in amps and voltage or watts. So the 20A value is real regardless of the “marketing HP” value next to it.
 
Jraef said:
I refer to this as “marketing HP”, where their marketing dept. uses a “HP” value that is exaggerated by using short momentary torque values known as “breakdown torque” that is upward of 220% of full load torque, but can only be sustained for about 2-3 seconds before getting into the thermal damage curve of the motor. Horsepower is actually a mechanical power expression, not an electrical one, we just mutually all agree collectively to use full load mechanical values to base electrical values. Marketing departments for consumer products don’t seem to agree to that convention.

But they cannot exaggerate about the LISTING information, which is required to give the real electrical power values, in amps and voltage or watts. So the 20A value is real regardless of the “marketing HP” value next to it.
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Could one assume that the 20 AMP nameplate listing would be FLA ?
 
Jraef said:
But… in the absence of other more accurate data, you have nothing else to go by!
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I guess I install a 20A 120V 1PH dedicated circuit with a 5-20 GFCI receptacle and call it good.

Only real way to confirm load is to have the unit here, plug it in, and do a load check. That isn’t gonna happen.
 
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