Vanity light rough in

[nizak]

Looking to see how others here handle the rough in wiring for bath vanities.

Accurate info as far as cabinet layout and fixture type are seldom available when I do my rough in.

With that being said it’s difficult to place a wall box in the proper position for mounting the fixture at finish.

Do most here just use a round rework box( not rated for the use) and call it good?

The times I’ve given the effort to securely place a box always seem to end up being wrong.

-Sink cutout in the granite is shifted one way or another.
- Fixture that’s furnished does not look right because of the size of it in relation to how high the box is mounted.
- Mirrors conflict with where the box is mounted.

Suggestions appreciated

 

[Little Bill]

Unless I have dimensions written in stone, with no room to move, I just leave a loop of wire in the wall. If it will have two lights, I leave a loop at each location. Use an old work (pop-in) box when vanity is set and mirrors up.

 

[infinity]

We have mounted a piece of plywood between the studs and then cut in a pancake box in the exact location after the walls are closed up. The cable can be left behind the plywood. This also eliminates the problem of the plumber running the sink vent right up where the light has to go.

 

[LarryFine]

The only option I can think of is you haven't discounted is a remodel fan box, if the vent stack isn't in the way (ask the plumber to leave the stud bay empty).

Are you sure there are no old-work boxes that are rated for a light?

 

[infinity]

Are you sure there are no old-work boxes that are rated for a light?

I thought that Arlington makes one to support up to 6 pounds.

 

[nizak]

The only option I can think of is you haven't discounted is a remodel fan box, if the vent stack isn't in the way (ask the plumber to leave the stud bay empty).

Are you sure there are no old-work boxes that are rated for a light?

Does the fact that a box has a designation of being a “ceiling box “ prohibit it from being used in a wall application? I did see one that’s says 10 lbs.

Most ceilings are 5/8” drywall and most walls are 1/2” would that be a factor as well?

Let’s say it’s going into a ship lap wall with 3/4” MDF.

 

[LarryFine]

Does the fact that a box has a designation of being a “ceiling box “ prohibit it from being used in a wall application? I did see one that’s says 10 lbs.

Most ceilings are 5/8” drywall and most walls are 1/2” would that be a factor as well?

Let’s say it’s going into a ship lap wall with 3/4” MDF.

I'd say it depends on whether the box or the drywall is the limiting factor.

 

[Little Bill]

Most ceilings are 5/8” drywall and most walls are 1/2” would that be a factor as well?

Usually, the only place 5/8" drywall is used is the ceiling in garages, and maybe the wall between a garage and living space.
If the vanity lights are not more than 6 or 7 pounds, the old work boxes will be fine in 1/2" drywall.

 

[JohnE]

For 40 years we have been cutting in old-work boxes for vanity lights. For the last 30, it has been "pop" boxes. I'm still using Union Box 3080-9 round old work boxes which are rated for 15 lb's for wall installation of light fixtures. I don't see any way to get the light centered perfectly on a rough-in otherwise, unless it is a totally custom home with extensive specs. We loop the romex in the bay and cut in the pop box. Given the open attics, we occasionally are in the wrong stud cavity, and have to pull the wires up and drill down to the right bay. (not often - only with "bad" builders) But ratings aside, IDK what the "problem" is with hanging a vanity light from a one gang old work box is....? It's a code violation, but what else is there?? Full disclaimer - I'm not advocating violating the NEC.

 

[acin]

Looking to see how others here handle the rough in wiring for bath vanities.

Accurate info as far as cabinet layout and fixture type are seldom available when I do my rough in.

With that being said it’s difficult to place a wall box in the proper position for mounting the fixture at finish.

Do most here just use a round rework box( not rated for the use) and call it good?

The times I’ve given the effort to securely place a box always seem to end up being wrong.

-Sink cutout in the granite is shifted one way or another.
- Fixture that’s furnished does not look right because of the size of it in relation to how high the box is mounted.
- Mirrors conflict with where the box is mounted.

Suggestions appreciated

if you cant get that information good luck if you also have a kitchen

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Must be some bad GCs out there.

Everything is specd on my jobs, before we ever start. I need cabinet drawings if I want the plumbing laid out properly, countertops are selected, sink placement is set, and lighting is spec’d and laid out.

On the other hand, all my work is custom remodel or very rarely, new custom. I’m not doing any tape-and-rape builder grade spec homes, so I know it’s different on those.

I know there are remodel ceiling fixtures and fan boxes. I’ve had varying success with those. They can be a little tricky to get into the cavity.

 

[James L]

If I leave a wire in the wall, the drywaller always stubs it out the sheetrock. Always in the wrong place, and sometimes sticking out the wrong side of the wall.

If I mount a box, it's not in the right place on the finish.

The closest I've come without plans is to use a bar hanger. At least the box can be loosened and slid over to the right spot later.

It works with pancakes, too. Just take the blue box off, turn the bar around backwards and flatten out the nailing tabs, then mount it to the fronts of the studs. Then use the screws and bracket to attach the pancake to it.

But If you have to move it, it causes you to make a return trip after it gets patched.

So this is my only option now:

I just won't wire it unless I have cabinet dimensions.

In fact, I'm at a point now that I won't start the job at all without all the cabinet drawings. I just refused to start a kitchen last week because of it.

I've been run through the ringer too many times. Just say no

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I always got the dimensions of the sink and asked whether the client wanted one or two lights. I always tried to mount the box ahead of time. This way I didn't have find the cable later.

 

[electrofelon]

I always leave a loop in the wall and cut the box in later. I try to avoid old work round boxes, so I usually pad out the stud with some wood so I can screw a box directly to something solid. Its really not that hard, all you need is some wood scraps, some screws, and a 12" 1/4" hex extension. Drywallers are instructed to not poke out any wires, its usually not a problem.

 

[James L]

I always got the dimensions of the sink and asked whether the client wanted one or two lights. I always tried to mount the box ahead of time. This way I didn't have find the cable later.

People don't seem to realize, it's not all that hard to have the drawings or dimensions beforehand

 

[electrofelon]

People don't seem to realize, it's not all that hard to have the drawings or dimensions beforehand

It's not just having the dimensions of the vanity tho. You need left right position (which ALWAYS seems to not be way the said initially), and also the type of fixture will effect the height, and they never have the fixture picked out at rough in.

 

[nizak]

Usually, the only place 5/8" drywall is used is the ceiling in garages, and maybe the wall between a garage and living space.
If the vanity lights are not more than 6 or 7 pounds, the old work boxes will be fine in 1/2" drywall.

For 40 years we have been cutting in old-work boxes for vanity lights. For the last 30, it has been "pop" boxes. I'm still using Union Box 3080-9 round old work boxes which are rated for 15 lb's for wall installation of light fixtures. I don't see any way to get the light centered perfectly on a rough-in otherwise, unless it is a totally custom home with extensive specs. We loop the romex in the bay and cut in the pop box. Given the open attics, we occasionally are in the wrong stud cavity, and have to pull the wires up and drill down to the right bay. (not often - only with "bad" builders) But ratings aside, IDK what the "problem" is with hanging a vanity light from a one gang old work box is....? It's a code violation, but what else is there?? Full disclaimer - I'm not advocating violating the NEC.

That Union Box you listed looks like a winner.

Thanks!

 

[James L]

It's not just having the dimensions of the vanity tho. You need left right position (which ALWAYS seems to not be way the said initially), and also the type of fixture will effect the height, and they never have the fixture picked out at rough in.

It's not hard to have light fixtures picked out, too.

Also, many designer fixtures mount to the plate from the edge, and a cut-in box will make it have a gap at the wall.

There's really just no substitute for proper planning. And electricians need to stop bearing the brunt of the responsibility for other people not doing their job correctly

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

A lot of good ideas, each bathroom has it's own challenges so there is no perfect cookie cutter solution.
I typically leave a whip in the wall and mount a section of blocking, usually a 2x10 and set it back far enough that I can mount a 4" octagonal flush to the plastered blueboard or dry wall.

 

[electrofelon]

It's not hard to have light fixtures picked out, too.

Also, many designer fixtures mount to the plate from the edge, and a cut-in box will make it have a gap at the wall.

There's really just no substitute for proper planning. And electricians need to stop bearing the brunt of the responsibility for other people not doing their job correctly

Agree with the problems of old work boxes, thats why I usually dont use them. As I mentioned, I screw on some blocking to the studs to pad it out as needed for a side screw box. I would love to have exact dimensions and the fixture on site at rough in, but 19 times out of 20 , its just not going to happen. Hell, the last project I did, they moved in and still hadnt picked out vanity lights and didnt even have the vanity fastened in place yet....