VA's

It is the load per duplex receptacle...the branch circuit rating has nothing to do with the load per receptacle, however more receptacles are permitted on a 20 amp circuit than on a 15 amp circuit.
 
LarryFine said:
I still disagree with that statement.
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Why has something changed with the code wording?

ecmweb_3356_503ecm31fig1.png
 
LarryFine said:
Isn't Art. 220 about load calculating and not actual installation?
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210.20(A) requires the branch circuit OCPD be at least the calculated load (with 125% continuous use modifier). So in a situation where each receptacle is to be calculated at 1.5A (180VA), and the OPCD is 15A, having more than 10 receptacles on that circuit violates 210.20(A).

Cheers, Wayne
 
Again, I disagree. The word 'calculated' does not appear in 210.20(A).

A receptacle is not a load. A calculated load is not a load.



210.20 Overcurrent Protection. Branch-circuit conductors
and equipment shall be protected by overcurrent protective
devices that have a rating or setting that complies with
210.20(A) through (D).
(A) Continuous and Noncontinuous Loads. Where a branch
circuit supplies continuous loads or any combination of contin‐
uous and noncontinuous loads, the rating of the overcurrent
device shall not be less than the noncontinuous load plus
125 percent of the continuous load.
 
LarryFine said:
Again, I disagree. The word 'calculated' does not appear in 210.20(A).

A receptacle is not a load. A calculated load is not a load.
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You seem to be conflating "load" with "utilization equipment." While it would be better if the NEC explicitly stated this somewhere (e.g. via a definition in Article 100), it is implicit that whenever the NEC uses the bare noun "load" it is referring to a number determined by following Article 220's procedure. Where the NEC wants to refer to a piece of equipment, it uses the term "utilization equipment." [Did not check every 1300+ uses of the word "load" in the 2017 NEC, it's possible there are some exceptions, which I would view as mistakes.]

220.10 covers calculating branch circuit loads and refers you to 220.12, 220.14, and 220.16. 220.14 covers "other loads--all occupancies". 220.14(I) covers "Receptacle Outlets". It says that, other than as covered in (J) Dwelling Units and (K) Office Buildings, the load per receptacle is 180VA per yoke.

So in a building other than a dwelling unit or an office building, a branch circuit supplying 11 general use duplex receptacles (not for specific utilization equipment, which would be covered under 220.14(A)) has a load of 1950 VA. 210.20(A) would therefore require an OCPD larger than 15A.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
You seem to be conflating "load" with "utilization equipment."
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No, I'm distinguishing between the rules for calculating circuits, feeders, and services vs those for actual wiring and installations.

wwhitney said:
220.10 covers calculating branch circuit loads and refers you to 220.12, 220.14, and 220.16. 220.14 covers "other loads--all occupancies". 220.14(I) covers "Receptacle Outlets". It says that, other than as covered in (J) Dwelling Units and (K) Office Buildings, the load per receptacle is 180VA per yoke.
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(I) Receptacle Outlets. Except as covered in 220.14(J) and
(K), receptacle outlets shall be calculated at not less than
180 volt-amperes for each single or for each multiple recepta‐
cle on one yoke. A single piece of equipment consisting of a
multiple receptacle comprised of four or more receptacles
shall be calculated at not less than 90 volt-amperes per recepta‐
cle. This provision shall not be applicable to the receptacle
outlets specified in 210.11(C)(1) and (C)(2)


It doesn't say "the load is" anything. I'm saying, "Fine, I calculated it that way."

wwhitney said:
So in a building other than a dwelling unit or an office building, a branch circuit supplying 11 general use duplex receptacles (not for specific utilization equipment, which would be covered under 220.14(A)) has a load of 1950 VA. 210.20(A) would therefore require an OCPD larger than 15A.
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If so, it would be way too easy to have an article that says: "The quantity of receptacle outlets permitted on one circuit shall not exceed the quantity in Table X.XX."
 
Supposed I wired an office building, and decided on twenty hallway receptacles for the single floor buffer that the custodian will run down each hallway. What says I can't wire them all on one circuit?


I'm not arguing with you; this is a fun discussion for me.
 
LarryFine said:
No, I'm distinguishing between the rules for calculating circuits, feeders, and services vs those for actual wiring and installations
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OK, but the rule for actual wiring (210.20(A)) refers to the value calculated. That's what the word "load" means.

LarryFine said:
Supposed I wired an office building, and decided on twenty hallway receptacles for the single floor buffer that the custodian will run down each hallway. What says I can't wire them all on one circuit?
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You could try saying that they are all for a specific load, so fall under 220.14(A), and then you wouldn't be stuck with 220.14(I)'s 180VA per receptacle.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Alwayslearningelec said:
Is that MAXing out circuit? Would you put 80% of that qty on circuit?
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In the case of the picture. Yes, maxing out the circuit. No, you would not apply continuous load rule in this case.
You can not round up and must round down.

120 x 20= 2400
2400/180= 13.3333
Round down to 13.

What I do is look at the panel schedule and do a comparison on that circuit for the load listed.

An example: circuit 1 office receptacles kvA load 1.4. Then look at that circuit and see five receptacles are on that circuit.
1.4 x 1000= 1400 va
1400/5= 280 va per office recpt.
280/120= 2.3333 amps per yoke.

This gives me insight on what the engineer has in mind. If you decide to change from that then it could fall back on the person that changes it and added more per circuit.

If some one said do it at bare minimums. Then 180 per and 13 per 20 unless there an amendment. Then add that kva of that circuit to the panel schedule and build your load calculations.

I look at it as general use receptacles (180va).
If the load was identified we would use that load and any applicable code rules.

Some amendments per local AHJ will only allow a certain quantity per circuit.

Keep in mind this is for other than a dwelling unless your in Tulsa. They use quantity per amp of circuit. They don't understand there own rule.
 
Locally they amended code so you can't have more than 10 "outlets" per circuit. Problem solved.

Not sure if it's applied to lighting outlets, as with LED wafers that's a bit ridiculous.
 
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