Vector Drives

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Ken9876

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Jersey Shore
Need a little help, one of the bridges I work on was rehabbed, a AC Vector drive by safetronics was installed. I don't have any knowledge of these systems other then the little I've read from a motor control book. What's a good book to read up on motor drives? Is a frequency drive the same as a vector drive? and what sort of meter will I need to measure voltage, amps out of this thing?
I really would like to learn all I can, as I feel the best way to troubleshoot something is to understand how it works first. Any help appreciated

Ken
 
Re: Vector Drives

Simply put, a vector drive is a frequency drive. Other names may include terms like Flux or Sensorless.

Due to advanced control algorithms a vector drive can produce up to 100% torque at zero speed. Most vector drives are sensorless (no feedback from the motor) but some have the ability to receive feedback and therefore perform just like DC drives.
 
Re: Vector Drives

This one does receive feed back there is an encoder on the motor. Was looking for a good source of info on these drives, as the only other drive I have seen is a 30+ year old westinghouse thysistor drive on a wound rotor motor.
 
Re: Vector Drives

This sounds interesting. I like motor control technology.

It would be better if the "cool sounding" terminology were replaced with something that had more meaning.

Due to advanced control algorithms a vector drive can produce up to 100% torque at zero speed.
If someome says so? :D
 
Re: Vector Drives

How do you figure 100% torque a t 0? 100% of zero is still zero. No torque is produced unless the rotor is in motion and the wr square of the rotor produces a force called torque. Sorry but I dont get it.Not gonna happen. without motion you have no torque.
 
Re: Vector Drives

That's not what torque is Stew.

1 foot pound of torque is what you'll have if you weld a rod to a shaft and hang a one pound weight from that rod one foot from the center of the shaft. Motion doesn't have to exist.

But I still don't see most motors giving up 100% torque with a locked rotor.
 
Re: Vector Drives

Startup torque is a different animal then running torque. Running torque can be 100's of times more then startup as the flywheel effect will add big numbers to the amount of torque available when a load is applied at full speed. But it is the startup torque that will maintain the RPM's after a load is applied.

At least this is the way I was told. :)

Most vector drives can produce 100% torque when ramping up from 0 RPM.
If full torque is not maintained at slower speeds then the RPM's will very as load is applied which is not very desirable.

Wound rotor motors have this problem but are very good for locomotion where it gives the operator a feel of a engine powered vehicle such as a crane. ;)
 
Re: Vector Drives

I'm really out of my element with a lot of motor concepts.

I can't help but be interested in some of the wierd ways they act though.

Edit:
Wound rotor motors
Have you been practicing saying that Wayne? :D

[ June 27, 2005, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: Vector Drives

vector drives manipulate the voltage being supplying to the motor based on the current position of the rotor. you can indeed get 100% torque at zero speed, just like a dc motor, although with a dc motor you can often get somewhat more. lots of iron in those beasts. they take a lot more abuse.

you may find that your ac motor needs an external cooling fan on it if it runs a lot at very low speeds.
 
Re: Vector Drives

Vector drives are great. You can get 100% torque at 0 speed. Torque is what makes the motor go around. You don't have motion with out torque, not you have to have motion to get torque. You also can hold that 100% torque without turning the motor into a smoke machine right away.
 
Re: Vector Drives

i have never found a book that explains things about vector drives other than the instruction manual that the manufacturer supplies with the drive. this is my own conseption of the vector drive from what i have gathered during their installation...

variable speed drives use a standard motor and control it's operation (speed) by creating a variable speed d.c. frequency. you have speed control, but not "exact speed control"!

a vector drive requires a matching vector drive motor with a feedback signal via a special control cable that creates an "exact speed control"! and as explained above, it can provide 100 per cent torque at zero rpm or a locked rotor effect without damage or heating within the motor.

consider our first install on a vector drive... it was in a large mechanical processing plant. they had a 100 h.p. motor geared to a large reduction gear box with a clutch. this gearbox provided a back and forth motion to a large table that moved about eight feet in each direction through a clutch for engagement. the gear box was about the size of a volkswagon and was supseptable to failure due to the abrupt --load-no load action of the process function! the motor (100 h.p. - 480v - 3 phase) was operating at near full load at all times while operation at 1800 rpm.. this local "garue" of drives was involved in the company's operation and called us to do the installation since we had worked together on many static drive installs. he is 83 years old and is one of the first in this area to introduce drives --- very interesting to work with --- it takes a while to get him to speak about drives where an electrician can understand-- but he can get down to our level!!!

he had us remove the 100 hp motor and the "volkwagon" gear box. he had calculated that a 60 hp static drive could do the same job as the 100 hp unit! we provided and installed the static drive motor shaft via a direct coupling to the mechanism's table gear! he then, programmed the static drive to operate enough turns in one direction to drive the table to it's maximum position in one direction and then he programmed it to stop and turn a programmed number of turns in the opposite direction to drive the table to it's maximum operating position! he started this by the beginning the back and forth motion in each direction, then increasing the stroke until the proper movement was reached! of course we are all standing there waiting for the motor to overheat and trip out!!!! wrong!! the motor never even got warm!!! and the plant only paid for the "actual work" the motor used, which reduced their normal operating costs by near $1000.00 a month!!! i think the installation and material costs for this job was about $36,000.00 and the owner was very happy to pay it considering the power and air conditioning saving and never had a failure in over five yaers that i knew of!!! they usually were required a major overhaul about once a year on the original installation, and it usually was a major breakdown with catistafic(sp) damage. he told us that in some countries, they have used static drives directly geared to elevator cars -- no cables --- thats how reliable and accurate they are!!!! the programming of these drives is the hardest job since they can have thousands of applications!!! and it is the responsibilty of the programmer to set the limitations of the drive to protect it and the drive's function!!! an example would be linking on directly up to a printing press --- you must know and program in the maximum "press speed" to protect the press from "flying apart"!!!! we actually, had one setup on a press, and about six months later found out the owner had found our user code and removed the "maximum speed setpoints" and was running about ten per cent over maximum speed with no maximum setpoint!!! i sent him a letter about it and put him on notice of the consiquence of his actions and explained that he would be responsible for damage to personel and equipment!!
 
Re: Vector Drives

I was reading some of the link Jim put up. It's kind of a sales paper but there's still enough technical information to get an idea of how the things work. It's pretty interesting.
 
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