Venting re: inspection

Merry Christmas

NathanVA

Member
Location
Alexandria, VA
Occupation
Master Electrician and Electrical Contractor
Ever been toe to toe with an inspector when he's dead wrong? He or she holds the cards, of course... and to paraphrase the Comedian Lewis Black "If you're standing in line and you need help from someone, you can't say 'Listen here, a-hole, you're an idiot!!' ... you have to tone that down".... I love me some Lewis Black. Anyway, I digress. Diplomacy and polite discourse are really the only way to win friends and influence people. But it sure isn't easy :)

Case in point: Outdoor Nema 14-50 Receptacle at a residence. We're using 2017 NEC. I failed an inspection because the receptacle does not have GFCI protection.

He's applying 210.8(B) - Other than dwelling units. When I point out that we should be using (A) since it's a dwelling unit. He retorts "well, we're outdoors, so we're not exactly *in* a dwelling unit"....

I have to count in my head to 10 so I don't explode. I take a breath and politely remind him to take a look at 210.8(A)(3) - Dwelling units, outdoors.

He said he's spoken with several supervisors and it's their consensus that 210.8(B) applies... but he was willing to speak with a county engineer for their interpretation and get back to me tomorrow.

Fingers crossed?

I'm sure you all have had similar experiences. Anyone else care to share their war stories? Any advice on pushing back against a misinterpretation?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
In NC we have a state engineer who we can call to get an interpretation. I get where the inspector is coming from but IMO that is not the intent of the code. The trouble is trying to prove it.
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
FWIW, if this outdoor NEMA 14-50 is for use with an EVSE, and if your state has adopted TIA 17-2, then the new section 625.54 would require GFCI protection for that receptacle. That section isn't in the original 2017 NEC, so unless your state specifically adopts it (or the relevant state law automatically adopts TIAs for the NEC), it wouldn't apply, to my understanding.

Cheers, Wayne
 

NathanVA

Member
Location
Alexandria, VA
Occupation
Master Electrician and Electrical Contractor
Thanks, Wayne. It is for an EVSE. Not sure if Virginia has adopted TIA 17-2. I’ll look into it. Doubtful, since that was the citation. But still worth knowing.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
He's applying 210.8(B) - Other than dwelling units. When I point out that we should be using (A) since it's a dwelling unit. He retorts "well, we're outdoors, so we're not exactly *in* a dwelling unit"....

I have to count in my head to 10 so I don't explode. I take a breath and politely remind him to take a look at 210.8(A)(3) - Dwelling units, outdoors.

He said he's spoken with several supervisors and it's their consensus that 210.8(B) applies... but he was willing to speak with a county engineer for their interpretation and get back to me tomorrow.
The inspector is wrong. The wording says in locations specified and it says outdoors. That applies to your installation. Now go back to the part that says 125 volt. Sorry but this guy is a dope.


210.8(A) Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20- ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (10) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
 

NathanVA

Member
Location
Alexandria, VA
Occupation
Master Electrician and Electrical Contractor
The inspector is wrong. The wording says in locations specified and it says outdoors. That applies to your installation. Now go back to the part that says 125 volt. Sorry but this guy is a dope.
You know it. I know it. The American people know it. :) Convincing the AHJ? Well, there's the challenge...
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Look to definitions, dwellings and dwelling unit. Dwelling makes specific reference to the building not just the interior. So my opinion is that if it is anything other that a structure that meets this definition it would then be "Other Than Dwelling Unit", and only then can apply 210.8(B), otherwise 210.8(A) applies.
OP indicates "at a residence" but is silent if this a detached or attached garage. Detached garage would be veiwed as a separate building and then could be a 210.8(B) required space. (Again Definition of dwelling unit)
 
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