Venting

A

Alwayslearningelec

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Estimator
So I joined this small family owned company about 2 years ago. They've been in business about 10 years. They are not that well run. I've been told they've had time when there has been zero cash flow, problems getting work etc. I really didn't know this coming in. I took the job(estimator) primarily because it's 5 minutesd from my house and have a 3 yo daughter. I've spent the last 15 years commuting 3 hours round trip.

Anyway I think they thought when they hired me I would close a whole lot of work. That hasn't been the case. I've closed about $5-6M in work in the last 2 years.
Thier father who is 78 and has been estimatiung with the company since they started has closed 1 job for $1.5M since I've been here.

My point is I don't think just hiring a seasoned/good estimator will automatically generate business. There are other aspects that if broken need to be fixed. BTW they have very very few relationships with GC's, barely any.

I feel like I am letting them down but then again I don't. They know my capabilities and realize I have a lot ot offer.

Thoughts??
 
In my old company when they hired someone to bring in large amounts of work they typically made them a VP or a senior project manager and didn't expect them to also be an estimator. If you were hired to bring in work then that's a different story but it sounds like they hired you for your estimation skills. IMO it's rare that an estimator would be the one who is mostly responsible for getting jobs. That is more often than not left to guys who are out in the field where they are making contacts, schmoozing clients, and selling their company as the best for the job.

Where you actually hired to bring in work?
 
infinity said:
In my old company when they hired someone to bring in large amounts of work they typically made them a VP or a senior project manager and didn't expect them to also be an estimator. If you were hired to bring in work then that's a different story but it sounds like they hired you for your estimation skills. IMO it's rare that an estimator would be the one who is mostly responsible for getting jobs. That is more often than not left to guys who are out in the field where they are making contacts, schmoozing clients, and selling their company as the best for the job.

Where you actually hired to bring in work?
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Absolutely wasn't hired to bring in work. Just estimating . I actually asked them recently when was the last time they went out with a client for a drink, game, dinner etc. they had no answer. I know they haven't since Ive been here for 2 years. They have very very little relationships with GC's. I've actually been started to setup meet and greets with GC's.
 
infinity said:
In my old company when they hired someone to bring in large amounts of work they typically made them a VP or a senior project manager and didn't expect them to also be an estimator. If you were hired to bring in work then that's a different story but it sounds like they hired you for your estimation skills. IMO it's rare that an estimator would be the one who is mostly responsible for getting jobs. That is more often than not left to guys who are out in the field where they are making contacts, schmoozing clients, and selling their company as the best for the job.

Where you actually hired to bring in work?
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I have to agree. If you are only estimating and not out there selling the company it isn't going to work out very often.

Low bidder isn't necessarily what you want to be very often, that may mean you are on losing end profit wise before you ever started the project. If you try to make up for it with overpriced change orders word gets out and you can be passed over in the bidding process down the road.

As much as many of us hate GC's, you kind of need to build a relationship with the ones you can stand to work for if you want to have the bigger projects. Not a lot of conventional sub contractors get to bid directly with the owners of the projects unless they already have some relationship with them.
 
Alwayslearningelec said:
Absolutely wasn't hired to bring in work. Just estimating . I actually asked them recently when was the last time they went out with a client for a drink, game, dinner etc. they had no answer. I know they haven't since Ive been here for 2 years. They have very very little relationships with GC's. I've actually been started to setup meet and greets with GC's.
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Sounds like they need to hire a professional salesman who already has contacts in the industry. Typically they come in and the company gives them a year or two to bring in work. If they don't they're let go. I've seen many of them over the years, they get hired because they have "contacts" with major GC's or developers and they make promises to bring X number of jobs. Often it doesn't work out but sometimes it does and it injects some new life into an otherwise stagnant company.

If you like a challenge and want to take on that roll go for it. Realize that this is far different from sitting in an office all day estimating. And it you do go for it just make sure that you negotiate a job percentage for your pocket.
 
Alwayslearningelec said:
Where/how would one start relationships with developers?
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you need to join whatever trade association is in your area and show up for all the events, and really need to sponsor some of them. Show your face, get introduced, take some folks out to lunch, send breakfast to their office, drop off gift cards to everyone at Christmas, join the country club even if you don't golf, just show your face at events and dinners. You have to build relationships.
 
In your opinion what things contribute to winning a bid? Feel free to add %.
Estimate & relationships seem like the only two or at least two primary.
 
Alwayslearningelec said:
In your opinion what things contribute to winning a bid? Feel free to add %.
Estimate & relationships seem like the only two or at least two primary.
Click to expand...

in order....
1. Reputation
2. Relationships
3. Price

I should probably preface that and say it does depend on what market you are in, but in high-value work, critical path trades are not selected on price alone. If you're just pricing quick turn retail buildouts etc from every GC shopping on PlanHub, it is likely going to come down to price.
 
Alwayslearningelec said:
In your opinion what things contribute to winning a bid?
Estimate & relationships
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It seems that more often than not those are the two factors that matter most, with price being number one. A close third is can the electrical contractor actually do the job? My old company built skyscrapers, they somehow managed to build a core of qualified people who could actually build an entire 60 story building from a hole in the ground. Not every electrical contractor out there can do that type of work so the developer or GC would need to be confident that they're hiring a company that can actually complete the work. Often a more skilled contractor with a proven track record will get the job even if their price is slightly higher than a contractor who lacks the experience to complete the job.

One other factor can simply be the guys(s) in the field. We've gotten big jobs when the developer or GC had a good working relationship on a previous project with one of our foreman and wanted them on their next project.
 
I think you will find that most of the work that you get that is not low bid is because they liked the work you did previously. Virtually all of our work is repeat business. I suspect it is that way for most contractors too.
 
"BTW they have very very few relationships with GC's, barely any."
I found your problem......Your job as an estimator is to establish the raw cost to do a job, with markup determined by the boss....that's it.
With good GC relationships you are put in a position to be one of 4-6 EC's bidding a job. Of course reliability, trust and past performance on jobs is key.....and that takes years. You may be at a dead end
 
I thank you very much guys. I have a meeting this week with owners/VP and will be bringing this topic up. I also think you need a "good" relationship person(s) to develop and foster these relationships. Obviously some people have better personalities/more likeable then others.
 
In your opinion what determine whether a relationship with GC is average, just talk on phone etc. or more personal which would be more helpful?
 
I was in sales for years calling on Owners, Engineers, GCs, and Contractors. You have to see them in person. I was in a large Engineering office in NYC and one of the Principals comes over and we're. He tells me one of his oldest friends is a director of Engineering for a large hospital group. They had a new project, and The Engineering firm wasn't invited to bid it. These guys went on vacations together, their wives were friends, belong to the same associations etc.. When he asked his buddy why he wasn't invited to bid his answer was "you hadn't been in the office in a while, all the other firms were right in my face".
Get in their face and STAY there. Always be there. But I wouldn't go down the road of bringing in business unless I was given some portion of the profit, or equity in the company. If you can bring in business AND you're a good estimator you should be compensated.
 
JoeVee123 said:
I was in sales for years calling on Owners, Engineers, GCs, and Contractors. You have to see them in person. I was in a large Engineering office in NYC and one of the Principals comes over and we're. He tells me one of his oldest friends is a director of Engineering for a large hospital group. They had a new project, and The Engineering firm wasn't invited to bid it. These guys went on vacations together, their wives were friends, belong to the same associations etc.. When he asked his buddy why he wasn't invited to bid his answer was "you hadn't been in the office in a while, all the other firms were right in my face".
Get in their face and STAY there. Always be there. But I wouldn't go down the road of bringing in business unless I was given some portion of the profit, or equity in the company. If you can bring in business AND you're a good estimator you should be compensated.
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Thanks..
 
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