very cool stuff

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The moderators have been recently discussing the notion of new posts that contain nothing but a link. We haven't made any recommendations to the owner yet, but we are generally not in favor of allowing it.

Bob, may I ask you to either post a comment (after this one, to keep things in context), or to edit your original post, to give at least a sentence or two that describes where your link will take the reader? The consensus of moderator opinion is that the reader should have some reason to decide whether or not to click the link, and that the original post should give some type of description.

Thanks for your understanding.
 
charlie b said:
The moderators have been recently discussing the notion of new posts that contain nothing but a link. We haven't made any recommendations to the owner yet, but we are generally not in favor of allowing it.

Bob, may I ask you to either post a comment (after this one, to keep things in context), or to edit your original post, to give at least a sentence or two that describes where your link will take the reader? The consensus of moderator opinion is that the reader should have some reason to decide whether or not to click the link, and that the original post should give some type of description.

Thanks for your understanding.
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I can't edit the post, given that ten minutes have passed.

I will summarize that the product line is an interesting alternative to hard wired branch circuits. Everything just plugs together. No conduit required. All the branch circuits are preconfigured and just plug in. The receptacles just plug in at the other end.

While it may not be appropriate for every situation, and I don't know the cost, it certainly looks like something that might make some sense for factory assembled pieces that have to be disassembled for shipment.
 
wireguru said:
neat, but i bet it is VERY expensive.
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Very expensive is a relative term.

If I can pre-assemble and test it at the factory rather than doing it in the field, there is potential to save a lot of field labor. Field labor is very expensive and inefficient. It also eats the calender. Usually the calender is your worst enemy come installation time.

I am wondering how I can sneak this into a project some time just to see how it works.
 
petersonra said:
Very expensive is a relative term.

If I can pre-assemble and test it at the factory rather than doing it in the field, there is potential to save a lot of field labor. Field labor is very expensive and inefficient.
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So you think it goes in without labor? :D

In general the labor costs have to be very high before a lot of this pre-fab stuff starts to make economic sense.

I do agree it can be help if you have a deadline.

As far as the 'test it at the factory' that sounds good but I don't see that as really happening. We often get prefabed electrical rooms and they arrive wrong. We end up re-wiring them to match the prints.
 
iwire said:
So you think it goes in without labor? :D
In general the labor costs have to be very high before a lot of this pre-fab stuff starts to make economic sense.
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I think the more labor I have under my control the better. For the most part, a machine manufacturer is not allowed to do a lot of the field labor themselves, and ends up being at the mercy of whatever contractors they are forced to use. Hooking up a few connectors is something that is unlikely to be frowned on as "work". Running conduit all over the place is. Even trying to test the field wiring is often considered "work" that has to be done by the contractor. And the testing is often not a lot better than the work done in the first place. If the work is done right, the testing is usually smooth. If the work itself is poor quality, the testing rarely finds everything. I have found that for the most part, anything that can be done to avoid field labor is usually cost effective.

iwire said:
As far as the 'test it at the factory' that sounds good but I don't see that as really happening. We often get prefabed electrical rooms and they arrive wrong. We end up re-wiring them to match the prints.
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Obviously, they were not made by us. :) We have a very low rate of that kind of thing. Not zero, but very low. It is very pricey to fix stuff in the field. We functionally test everything that leaves our shop before hand. We can't actually run everything, but it is tested as best we can. If something left that was wired wrong, the owner would not be happy, not one bit.

We do get switchboards and MCCs that have errors in them that we find while modifying, wiring, or testing them. Not real often, but not unheard of.
 
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petersonra said:
. Hooking up a few connectors is something that is unlikely to be frowned on as "work". Running conduit all over the place is.
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Not really following you.

Here if you install electrical equipment for power and lights for a fee you need a license, permits and inspections. Even 'Re-locs' are wiring method covered by the NEC.


Obviously, they were not made by us. :) We have a very low rate of that kind of thing.
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Thats cool, because as much money as we make fixing them we really don't have time planed for that.


It is very pricey to fix stuff in the field.
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Yes, we hit you hard, kind of retaliation for taking 'our work' to start with .... oh was I to honest. :D


We do get switchboards and MCCs that have errors in them that we find while modifying, wiring, or testing them. Not real often, but not unheard of.
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The kinds of things we receive are entire electrical rooms prewired with panels, transformers, contactors, some sort of programmable controls for energy management.

The most common issues are miss-wiring between the breakers, contactors and terminal strips going out to the field.

Never find shorts or dangerous items, just straight forward miss wire or miss-programing of the controls.
 
iwire said:
As far as the 'test it at the factory' that sounds good but I don't see that as really happening. We often get prefabed electrical rooms and they arrive wrong. We end up re-wiring them to match the prints.
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It's been a few years since I had the feeling anything I purchased was seen by a QC inspector.

Dave
 
iwire said:
Not really following you.
Here if you install electrical equipment for power and lights for a fee you need a license, permits and inspections. Even 'Re-locs' are wiring method covered by the NEC.
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I don't consider the area lighting part of my equipment. The machine does not care if the lights are on or not.

Once the power gets to my equipment, it is no longer part of the building. In general, the internal wiring of a machine or other system is not subject to inspection. It may be in a few places, but I have not run across any. A UL sticker on the panel usually covers whatever is required as far as the inspectors care.
 
I've saw something very similar to this used in the UK in an installation just before I left. An office block, about 20 floors, doing all the above ceiling tile wiring.

It goes up quick, and it works first time. Its particularly handy as you get both power and BMS data in the one wiring system, so air handlers, and fluorescents with light sensors and dimmable ballasts in them just, and the motion sensors, they all clip together.

The only real electrical work left was connecting the big hub boxes to the breaker panels...
 
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