VFD controlling 2 motors ( Starting one while one is already running ? )

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Davebones

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( Mitsubishi FR-F840-03250-3-N6 VFD ) We have a test stand with two ( 75 hp ) motor driven pumps on it . They want to use this one VFD to run both motors at the same time . They will sometimes run one or both motors while doing a test . My question is can the second motor be turned on while the first motor is already running ? From the information I found I don't think it can be done ...
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
( Mitsubishi FR-F840-03250-3-N6 VFD ) We have a test stand with two ( 75 hp ) motor driven pumps on it . They want to use this one VFD to run both motors at the same time . They will sometimes run one or both motors while doing a test . My question is can the second motor be turned on while the first motor is already running ? From the information I found I don't think it can be done ...
I agree. A direct on line start may take six times the motor full load current.
Don't try it.
 

LMAO

Senior Member
Location
Texas
( Mitsubishi FR-F840-03250-3-N6 VFD ) We have a test stand with two ( 75 hp ) motor driven pumps on it . They want to use this one VFD to run both motors at the same time . They will sometimes run one or both motors while doing a test . My question is can the second motor be turned on while the first motor is already running ? From the information I found I don't think it can be done ...

Overloads are required if VFD controls more than 1 motor. And the only way to run one motor at a time is to use contactors (aka combination starters).
 

Jraef

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If you are LUCKY, starting the second motor when the VFD is already running the first one will cause it to trip. If you are unlucky, it will blow the transistors. The transistors are designed EXPECTING to not have to deal with motor inrush current because it will always be ramping into a motor (or motors) starting from a stop. If already running and a second motor is added in, that second motor cannot be ramped again and the inrush current will far exceed the rating of the drive transistors. The one caveat is of you size the drive for 100% of motor 1 FLA and maybe 600% of motor 2 FLA, so 7x the FLA of one motor! But even then the magnetizing current of motor 2 might still kill the drive. If you are thinking that you can use the Current Limit feature of the drive, the answer there is probably not,as the time lag for the mP in the drive to figure out what to do is longer than the inrush current rise time.

Other than that, no problemo...
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
If you are LUCKY, starting the second motor when the VFD is already running the first one will cause it to trip. If you are unlucky, it will blow the transistors. The transistors are designed EXPECTING to not have to deal with motor inrush current because it will always be ramping into a motor (or motors) starting from a stop. If already running and a second motor is added in, that second motor cannot be ramped again and the inrush current will far exceed the rating of the drive transistors. The one caveat is of you size the drive for 100% of motor 1 FLA and maybe 600% of motor 2 FLA, so 7x the FLA of one motor! But even then the magnetizing current of motor 2 might still kill the drive. If you are thinking that you can use the Current Limit feature of the drive, the answer there is probably not,as the time lag for the mP in the drive to figure out what to do is longer than the inrush current rise time.
More simply put, don't do it.
 

Davebones

Senior Member
I can't " RTFM" because the VFD is not here ! No one bothered to ask the electrician about doing this before they bought it . They just " ASSUMED " they could start one after one was already running . This is why they are in management and I'm just the electrician !
 

GoldDigger

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Placerville, CA, USA
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Retired PV System Designer
Simple problem to fix. Whenever one motor is running and they want to start the other, just stop the first and start both together.
That might actually work if the ramp up needs for both motors are similar enough.
:)

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
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Electrical Engineer
Simple problem to fix. Whenever one motor is running and they want to start the other, just stop the first and start both together.
That might actually work if the ramp up needs for both motors are similar enough.
:)

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
That is the way it is done, yes.

One caveat though, you will need to assure that the first motor is STOPPED before re-starting. VFDs can do what is called "Flying Restart", that catches a an already spinning motor on the fly, matches its speed and accelerates it from there. But only into ONE motor; trying it with 2 motors can create a situation where they are at different speeds, so like generators out of synch, can create a nasty voltage spike that also takes out the transistors.

More common in a situation like this is to have a contactor arrangement on the output that uses the VFD to ramp one motor to full speed, then it is transferred to an Across-the-Line starter. The VFD is then "recycled" for the 2nd motor.

Another way to do this is what's called a "common DC bus" arrangement that, instead of having one big drive capable of both motors, have one rectifier, but two smaller inverters connected to it, one to each motor. They can then run independently of each other, but any regen from one is used in the other.

Both of those last two options however would have needed to have been engineered into the system up front. it sounds as if this drive already exists. In that case, your only option is what GoldDigger said; shut it down, add in the 2nd motor once the first one is stopped, then re-start.
 

Ingenieur

Senior Member
Location
Earth
looks like it's good for 600 A for 3 sec (rated for 250 HP at 440 vac)
maybe 150% of that for 1 sec
throw the switch, no pain, no gain
;)

75 HP ~ 95 A at 100% loading
 
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