VFD Drives

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sfav8r

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
We have a client that has 2 ABB 550-ACH VFDs installed. They each drive a Baldor 7.5hp 3P motor. The first one failed in December of 2009 after about 2 years of service. Now, the 2nd one will only operate in manual mode. I really hate to just order an identical replacement for this because I think at the price they paid, my client should get better life out of them. When the first one went, I figured it was just a fluke, but now that the 2nd one went I'm not so sure. What is a reasonable life span for a VFD like this? It has a relatively easy life. The 2 motors are for circulating warm water for the heating system. One runs and the other is an "emergency" backup. We rotate the "active" motor every 30 days. Any thoughts on how long they should last or another brand that may perform better?

PS - the enviornment does not appear to be a factor. Good ventilation, good motors, proper alignment, etc.

Thanks
 
S'mise

S'mise

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
I'd say you should get at least 10years out of it. Review the paramaters for proper settings. Make sure it, and motor are properly grounded. Might want to add shock mounts if vibration is an issue.
 
Besoeker

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
sfav8r said:
We have a client that has 2 ABB 550-ACH VFDs installed. They each drive a Baldor 7.5hp 3P motor. The first one failed in December of 2009 after about 2 years of service. Now, the 2nd one will only operate in manual mode. I really hate to just order an identical replacement for this because I think at the price they paid, my client should get better life out of them. When the first one went, I figured it was just a fluke, but now that the 2nd one went I'm not so sure. What is a reasonable life span for a VFD like this? It has a relatively easy life. The 2 motors are for circulating warm water for the heating system. One runs and the other is an "emergency" backup. We rotate the "active" motor every 30 days. Any thoughts on how long they should last or another brand that may perform better?

PS - the enviornment does not appear to be a factor. Good ventilation, good motors, proper alignment, etc.

Thanks
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It might have been a fluke but two years life before failure is simply unacceptable.
What was the mode of failure?
How did it show itself up? Did it just stop working or was a catastrophic flash and a bang kind of thing?
The problem with the second unit might be entirely unrelated. If it is still running the motor it indicates that the basic power circuit is OK and it is a control problem.
 
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sfav8r

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Besoeker said:
It might have been a fluke but two years life before failure is simply unacceptable.
What was the mode of failure?
How did it show itself up? Did it just stop working or was a catastrophic flash and a bang kind of thing?
The problem with the second unit might be entirely unrelated. If it is still running the motor it indicates that the basic power circuit is OK and it is a control problem.
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The first failure was a total failure...it just stopped working. No motor control and no response to inputs. I don't think the 2nd failure is related in terms of a common cause, I'm just questioning whether or not I should buy another ABB or try another manufacturer since the ABB units are not proving to be reliable.
 
Besoeker

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
sfav8r said:
The first failure was a total failure...it just stopped working. No motor control and no response to inputs. I don't think the 2nd failure is related in terms of a common cause, I'm just questioning whether or not I should buy another ABB or try another manufacturer since the ABB units are not proving to be reliable.
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It's a fair point. Have you spoken to your supplier about these failures? If he's an ABB stockist/supplier he may give you a sympathetic hearing if he stands to lose business.
I've in the drives business since we started the business in 1972 (yes, I'm that old ;)) and I have seen variable speed drives make huge strides reliability, performance, and features. It's becoming more common for customers to require a three year warranty and we normally provide that. As a supplier, what can we do? We can't say we won't otherwise it makes us look as if we don't have confidence in our equipment. We had one project where the warranty was 30,000 operational hours.
So, maybe there is scope for you negotiate better warranty terms on whatever manufacturer's equipment you use as a replacement. But, if for no other reason than to make your customer feel that you recognize that there have been problems and you're doing something about it, an alternative manufacturer's product might be a good move.
 
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sfav8r

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
ptonsparky said:
We replaced a DanFoss this year that had 40000hrs on it, but someone at some point had placed it in hand mode so it did not alternate as had been planned. The twin is still working. We had an XXX el cheapo that didn't last 3 months.
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My best guess is that the first unit failed at about 8-9,000 hours and the 2nd one at about 15,000.
 
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skeshesh

Senior Member
Location
Los Angeles, Ca
For what its worth we specify the ACH550s quite often. One of the clients (military base) is very much fond of using this unit. The on-base project management (several of whom at the senior level are mechanical and electrical engineers) has always asked us to specify this product in our basis of design and I've not heard of a single failure. This preference goes back to when they were using older but similar ABB units (ACH400 etc) so I think they've had a positive experience with this unit. The period of failure is uncommon to my knowledge.
 
sii

sii

Senior Member
Location
Nebraska
We have a Cutler Hammer 50hp SVX9000 series drive that is in a very dirty, hot vibrating environment. I just checked the hours and it will hit 38,000 next month.

I man, I just killed it didn't I?
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
sfav8r said:
We have a client that has 2 ABB 550-ACH VFDs installed. They each drive a Baldor 7.5hp 3P motor. The first one failed in December of 2009 after about 2 years of service. Now, the 2nd one will only operate in manual mode. I really hate to just order an identical replacement for this because I think at the price they paid, my client should get better life out of them. When the first one went, I figured it was just a fluke, but now that the 2nd one went I'm not so sure. What is a reasonable life span for a VFD like this? It has a relatively easy life. The 2 motors are for circulating warm water for the heating system. One runs and the other is an "emergency" backup. We rotate the "active" motor every 30 days. Any thoughts on how long they should last or another brand that may perform better?

PS - the enviornment does not appear to be a factor. Good ventilation, good motors, proper alignment, etc.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Stuff sometimes fails. Even good stuff.

The 2nd one seems more likely that someone messed with the parameters or the control wiring than an actual failure. I would be hunting down the actual cause before I would condemn the drives.
 
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SFBayVFD

Member
Location
Pleasanton, CA
VFDs to Consider

VFDs to Consider

The ABBs are generally considered a reliable drive, but they are a bit pricey. If you're thinking of moving to a new brand I would consider the Toshiba "Q9" as a quality replacement for the ACH550; they are great little drives, cost effective, good quality.

A second option would be the Danfoss VLT FC100 series, same comments as above but it is again a bit more pricey than the Toshiba.


VFD Technician, San Francisco Bay Area
SFBayVFD
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Richard Cummins said:
In my experience most VFD's fail because the supply side is missing a fast acting fuse on each phase. Do you have fuses on the supply (VFD input) side?
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How will a fast acting fuse prevent the VFD from failing? IMO once the fuse needs to blow, the damage is already done. The type and sizing of the fuse may limit the damage to smoke only vs bits and pieces flying all over the place.
 
J

jdsmith

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
ptonsparky said:
How will a fast acting fuse prevent the VFD from failing? IMO once the fuse needs to blow, the damage is already done. The type and sizing of the fuse may limit the damage to smoke only vs bits and pieces flying all over the place.
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My Allen Bradley rep agrees with you. I have had this discussion before as I don't typically fuse the drive input, I typically mount the drive on the wall and feed it from a MCCB in a 6" MCC bucket instead of a fuse in an 18" MCC bucket.
 
E

Eric R 1973

Member
Before you replace the drive you should really look at your parameter settings and control wiring there is also a downloadable user manual available online just simply type in ABB 550 ACH in your search. You should be able to replace either board in the drive it's really not that difficult to troubleshoot them when you have the manual with diagrams to refer to.
 
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