Vibrating conduit

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ghostbuster

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Has anyone experienced conduit or busduct, to continually vibrate at a very low frequency?When the U.P.S. (650 K.V.A.) incoming feed is switched from utility to generator power the vibrating stops.I suspect harmonic distortion from this U.P.S. is the cause of these vibrations.I will be at site Monday to take some measurements.:)
 
GB:

I would have thought harmonics would cause the vibration on generator worse than on utility, as the utility bus should be STIFFER, more able to absorbe/handle the harmonics.

Be curious to know.
 
brian john said:
GB:

I would have thought harmonics would cause the vibration on generator worse than on utility, as the utility bus should be STIFFER, more able to absorbe/handle the harmonics.

Be curious to know.

Brian

All 10 floors of this buiding is a telco hotel.Each customer on each floor has their own U.P.S. and diesel geny.I would suspect the utility feeder power harmonic distortion in this building to be extremely rich++++ in harmonics.:)
 
Brian

Site test results to-day:

As I suspected,the 5 th harmonic level increased when on utility power.This 300 hz.(60x5) correlated with the conduit mechanical vibration frequency.:)
 
Was there high 7th 11th and 13th GOOD find. You knew it in the part of you brain that controls the NEC and electrical thoughts prior to arriving there today, I'd bet.
 
How long is the conduit (or how far between the supports)? 300 Hz seems like a pretty high freq. for a conduit vibration. I wonder if adding extra supports on the conduit would raise its mechanical resonant freq, and dampen the vibrations?

Steve
 
steve66 said:
How long is the conduit (or how far between the supports)? 300 Hz seems like a pretty high freq. for a conduit vibration. I wonder if adding extra supports on the conduit would raise its mechanical resonant freq, and dampen the vibrations?

Steve

Steve

I have enclosed a picture of the 2 conduits vibrating(2 on right side in picture).Note:this is a parallel run to the U.P.S.

MVC-009S.jpg



This vertical conduit run is 8 floors with supports per code.The power cabling within this conduit was also vibrating at the same 300 hz.frequency.The wavelength of 300 Hz. is approx. 46 inches.

Our prelim. solution is to add U.P.S. input harmonic filtering.:)
 
Did you by any chance throw an amp clamp around the entire vibrating conduit? Were your harmonic measurements voltage, current, or both?

On harmonics: remember that non-linear loads consume harmonic _currents_. Like any load current, harmonic load currents cause voltage drop in the supply impedance. In the same way that a resistive load will drop the fundamental supply voltage, non-linear loads will drop the 'harmonic supply voltage'. This change in supply voltage shows up as harmonic distortion of the supply voltage.

With a perfectly 'stiff' supply, non-linear loads would cause no distortion in the supply voltage. Harmonic currents would flow, but the supply would provide them with no drop, so the supply voltage and waveform shape would remain constant. Conversely, a _stiff_ supply will mean greater harmonic current flow to the non-linear loads, because it has less voltage drop.

Hopefully someone here has seen this sort of thing before. I don't work with large UPS systems, and don't know how their switching output might couple to bonded metal (with the VFD motor systems that I do work with, the high frequency switching capacitively couples to ground, so even without an actual ground fault, you do see current flow on bonded metal, and you will measure 'ground fault' current).

-Jon
 
winnie said:
Did you by any chance throw an amp clamp around the entire vibrating conduit? Were your harmonic measurements voltage, current, or both?

-Jon

Jon
Detailed voltage and current waveforms, harmonic frequency spectra traces, T.H.D. etc. were captured on both diesel and utility supply.Also,vibration H.F.S. traces were captured on the conduit and cable systems with both supply scenarios.As mentioned,the source is the U.P.S. electronics interactions.:)
 
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