Violation?

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Rock Crusher

Member
Location
Ne. USA
891.jpg

See the burn marks on the wall behind it? This is the replacement panel that a local electrical contractor put in. He only replaced the panel, no wiring or conduit or sealtight, was replaced.
In his defense, he was told to only replace the panel:eek:
The cause of the arc flash, or so we think, was a loose breaker. The previous panel had every breaker with two or more wires landed under them. The breakers were not rated for this:slaphead:
I always thought, was told, that if a wire was damaged in any way (fire, water, chemical) that it need to be replaced. ie. romex during a flood.
 
Last edited:
Rock Crusher said:
View attachment 6571

See the burn marks on the wall behind it? This is the replacement panel that a local electrical contractor put in. He only replaced the panel, no wiring or conduit or sealtight, was replaced.
In his defense, he was told to only replace the panel:eek:
The cause of the arc flash, or so we think, was a loose breaker. The previous panel had every breaker with two or more wires landed under them. The breakers were not rated for this:slaphead:
Click to expand...

He should have installed a bigger panel with all new breakers and he should have used a ground bar kit.


It looks sad to say the least.:happysad:
 
Rock Crusher said:
View attachment 6571

See the burn marks on the wall behind it? This is the replacement panel that a local electrical contractor put in. He only replaced the panel, no wiring or conduit or sealtight, was replaced.
In his defense, he was told to only replace the panel:eek:
The cause of the arc flash, or so we think, was a loose breaker. The previous panel had every breaker with two or more wires landed under them. The breakers were not rated for this:slaphead:
I always thought, was told, that if a wire was damaged in any way (fire, water, chemical) that it need to be replaced. ie. romex during a flood.
Click to expand...

Is that a sub panel?

Because he has the green screw in the neutral bar..:slaphead:
 
I guess you could say it's a sub-panel. It's the panel for control shack I work in, but is fed from another panel about 400 feet away.
And that is the new panel, with new breakers.
Like I said before though, in his defense, he was told to do it this way.
As an electrician myself though, whenever someone wants something done a certain way and it's against code, or my better judgement, I generally don't do it. I stand firm when it concerns someones safety.
 
Rock Crusher said:
I guess you could say it's a sub-panel. It's the panel for control shack I work in, but is fed from another panel about 400 feet away.
And that is the new panel, with new breakers.
Like I said before though, in his defense, he was told to do it this way.
As an electrician myself though, whenever someone wants something done a certain way and it's against code, or my better judgement, I generally don't do it. I stand firm when it concerns someones safety.
Click to expand...

I see .

I'm surprised that they did not get a bigger panel so they did not have to use twin breakers.
 
The sub-panel is in a control shack 400' away from the source panel...... I see a seperate structure in my mind and more than 6 handles in this panel. If I an envisioning correctly a main breaker is required to be be code compliant. Also, is that a Tek screw holding a TA-6 lug into the panel for the ground lug and is that TA-6 rated for more than 1 conductor?

As far as the OP goes, if the wiring was cleaned up a little better and meggered, I would re-use it. There is no code that I can think of that would require it to be replaced.
 
Rock Crusher said:
View attachment 6571

See the burn marks on the wall behind it? This is the replacement panel that a local electrical contractor put in. He only replaced the panel, no wiring or conduit or sealtight, was replaced.
In his defense, he was told to only replace the panel:eek:
The cause of the arc flash, or so we think, was a loose breaker. The previous panel had every breaker with two or more wires landed under them. The breakers were not rated for this:slaphead:
I always thought, was told, that if a wire was damaged in any way (fire, water, chemical) that it need to be replaced. ie. romex during a flood.
Click to expand...

Was there a fire or just an arc flash? Burn marks are probably not really burn marks but carbon deposits from that flash event. Clean up the carbon - meg conductors and they are likely fine. There is grounding issues and possibly six disconnect violation - hard to tell if there is conductors in the main lugs or if one of the breakers is a back fed main - if so there is no hold down kit installed - and it would only install in the far left side not the right in that particular panel.
 
It must have been just an arc flash. They said the fuse in the MCC blew that feeds this. If it was a fire, I think the damage would have been more sever; as there was no one around to put it out. It happened about 2 am (we think).
The 2 2-pole breakers you see are for a heater and an AC, not a back fed main. I think everything must come from the MCC, which seems stupid (on so many levels) to me. But I've only been in the trade for about 7 years:D
 
As far as the OP goes, if the wiring was cleaned up a little better and meggered, I would re-use it. There is no code that I can think of that would require it to be replaced.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. I was just refering to past experiences with inspectors. I thought if the integrity of the wire was compramised that it needed replaced. It sounded good and right, and I learned not to argue with inspectors:happyno:
But this company (electrical contractor) must be allergic to meggers. Everytime I ask if they would/could do it, they say they did (and didn't), or that they don't need to. They'd rather spend days and weeks trying to troubleshoot a problem, when a megger would help eliminate some of the guesswork.

As far as everything else goes that, may or may not be, a violation. I keep gettting told that a mining facility falls under different rules. I know it's MSHA, but I thought safety was job #1, and we have the code book and other rules for that very reason; not to make peoples lives difficult, as some would like to think.
 
Last edited:
Gac66610 said:
Hey Bill found that ground screw you've been looking for!! ( sorry had to)

I see a bond at the bottom left?
Click to expand...

If you are not familiar with this panel the bonding screw is in the far right end of the neutral bar just to the left of the neutral main lug but slightly above the bar - it has a green headed screw.
 
LEO2854 said:
Is that a sub panel?
Click to expand...

If it is a sub panel shouldn't the two (ground and neutral) be separated.

as to the "Hey Bill" little bill was looking for the bonding screw for a GE panel in another thread

and true I have not seen a panel quite like this one and am not colored blind.... one of my helpers is:(
 
the blur said:
arc flash at 2am with no human error cause ?
I thought most AF incidents were caused by human interaction ?
Click to expand...

Enough conductivity for voltage to overcome - for any reason will cause the flash. Dirt build up over time could eventually lead to this, overheating bus and vaporized metal being redeposited where you wouldn't want it could eventually lead to this.
 
Here is the bonding screw location:
bondingscrew.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top