Voip Migration and fire panels

[IonBlue]

Hi friends,

What methods are you using to deal with Voip migration and fire panel failure to communicates? We are presently dealing with a huge migration in Iowa towards Voip only and it has brought hell with it. So far the only reasonable solution we seem to have found is an ip dialer capture mod. Was wondering what is your way of dealing with it, and if someone could actually clarify what the code says, i have only been able to find it listed in the annex.

 

[GrayHair]

As you've no doubt found, digital communicators for POTS don't like VOIP.:rant: One solution is to put a network adapter on the fire panel and use the internet to communicate with the monitoring station. I mention that first since a network is obviously available for VOIP. Another solution is using the cellular data channels. Listed interfaces are available for both. I personally like to see an interface from the panel manufacturer, since they will usually send the most information and you won't end up in the middle when each points to the other if it doesn't work.

I recommend you actually set up your first one in your office, as opposed to learning in front of the customer (that was an uncomfortable situation for me :dunce. If you are not familiar with networking, there are several basic courses available including from many fire panel manufacturers.

Good Luck! We've come a long way from polarity-reversal over a leased line to the local fire department.

 

[nhfire77]

Hi friends,

What methods are you using to deal with Voip migration and fire panel failure to communicates? We are presently dealing with a huge migration in Iowa towards Voip only and it has brought hell with it. So far the only reasonable solution we seem to have found is an ip dialer capture mod. Was wondering what is your way of dealing with it, and if someone could actually clarify what the code says, i have only been able to find it listed in the annex.

To see the writing on the wall, even if you are not under the 2013 version of 72, read chapter 26 it its entirty.

PSTN (pots lines). Will now require 6 hour test windows.

Managed Facility Voice Networks (essentially VoIP) is becoming more accepted.

Reasonable solutions exist..... "Alternate technoligies". You need to get th AHJ on board for them. I do have one AHJ that requires 60 hours of standby, currently there are no UL solutions other than POTS, which sucks (one way radio would be an exception but they don't have a municipal system)

Personally I am using cell communicators or two way wireless mesh network radios. I will not use POTS for any new work. The cell is so easy and profitable, and you can practically give them away on take overs

 

[nhfire77]

As you've no doubt found, digital communicators for POTS don't like VOIP.:rant: One solution is to put a network adapter on the fire panel and use the internet to communicate with the monitoring station. I mention that first since a network is obviously available for VOIP. Another solution is using the cellular data channels. Listed interfaces are available for both. I personally like to see an interface from the panel manufacturer, since they will usually send the most information and you won't end up in the middle when each points to the other if it doesn't work.

I recommend you actually set up your first one in your office, as opposed to learning in front of the customer (that was an uncomfortable situation for me :dunce. If you are not familiar with networking, there are several basic courses available including from many fire panel manufacturers.

Good Luck! We've come a long way from polarity-reversal over a leased line to the local fire department.

How do you provide UL listed, for fire alarm service, network equipment and/or 24h of standby when using IP?

 

[GrayHair]

Once you connect to a communications network (i.e.; the customer's network) it's no longer part of the fire alarm and fire listing is not required; just like connecting a digital communicator to a POTS line, the listing required from the demarc and "out" is for communication networks. That said, I always stressed all switches, routers and firewalls should have minimum 24 hour stand-by power (UPS), explained why and played the "your insurer might refuse to pay" card if there is no stand-by power. My proposal to do Internet monitoring included necessary UPS(s), installation and testing (customer had the option to decline the UPS, but a signature was required to decline).

The IT people sometimes didn't like the idea, see the need for it, want anyone near their equipment or look kindly at another reason to stay late to repower their equipment after UPS installation. (You usually don't want to take a network down during normal working hours.) I added the UPS to my Inspection/Testing agreement, usually at a premium since killing AC power to a network UPS will probably be done outside normal working hours. I also included UPS batteries in the 4-year battery replacement schedule.

IT will give you a static address and subnet mask for the panel and SHOULD block that address from being assigned by their DHCP server; be sure to request they do so. For various reasons networks get reconfigured (IP ranges, subnets, segmentation, port blocking, etc) and this can cause communication problems (what IT doesn't control usually gets forgotten). Asking about recent network changes was on my troubleshooting list, but not at the top (a good relationship with IT can save you a lot of grief ) even if maybe it should have been.

If your are not into networking, cell communicators may be a better option. Specifics will be determined by the technology (CDMA and GSM are the most common) of the carrier you choose.

Keep in mind I've been retired several years and requirements change. I still help out when needed (part of every week for a while now) and next week I'll talk to people who do Internet monitoring every day, see how they handle it, see if I missed anything and post again.

Regards!

 

[ISSLDR]

Whiskers

Whiskers

Spoke with a Telco guy last week and he said some of the Voip services will accept the old 3+1 format because of the packet size. Since most fire panels require 2 lines; Grayhair is right. The best way is to go with cellular (GSM) and internet. POTS is almost gone. Good Luck

 

[GrayHair]

More up-to-date info

More up-to-date info

Sorry for the late with my promised post; same-old-sinus issues had me down for a few days.

My conversation with the head of the fire division was enlightening. My statement that network equipment does not require fire listing was wrong :dunce:. He told me network equipment listed for fire is available, but prices are exorbitant. However, inspectors don't always enforce that requirement. He deals with this almost daily and i personally trust what he told me.

Also, there are cellular communicators now that don't need tight integration with the fire panel to transmit all the panel information. They take the place of POTS lines and digital receiver, providing an "acknowledge" (I'm ready to receive data), receiving the signals, providing a "kissoff" (I heard and understood you), converting/"packaging" the signals and forwarding them to the correct monitoring station. Make sure the cellular unit is acceptable to your monitoring station and will handle one of the transmission formats the digital communicator can output (Contact ID was/is robust, requires little if any programming and should still be popular).

As always, understand the requirements of the NFPA 72 edition in use in that area.

Regards!