voltage drop

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hhsting

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Splices can be confusing when doing voltage drop calculation. I have the following diagram attached. The connection at points numbered 2 and 5 are splices. If I wanted to know the current and distance for voltage drop calculation lets say at Point #3, Point #6 which fixtures I would have to take into account to do that?
 

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Splices can be confusing when doing voltage drop calculation. I have the following diagram attached. The connection at points numbered 2 and 5 are splices. If I wanted to know the current and distance for voltage drop calculation lets say at Point #3, Point #6 which fixtures I would have to take into account to do that?

How about some loads on the fixtures and lengths to the panel and we can do the math.
 
How about some loads on the fixtures and lengths to the panel and we can do the math.
Each fixture draws about 2 amps. Single phase 277V.

Panel to #1: 20 feet
#2 to #3: 40 feet
#2 to #4: 60 feet
#4 to #5: 80 feet
#5 to #6: 100 feet
#5 to #7: 80 feet.

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Each fixture draws about 2 amps. Single phase 277V.

Panel to #1: 20 feet
#2 to #3: 40 feet
#2 to #4: 60 feet
#4 to #5: 80 feet
#5 to #6: 100 feet
#5 to #7: 80 feet.

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Cool. I'll work on it. I'm adding 40' from 1 to 2. I'll draw it up so it makes sense what I'm doing.
 
Voltage Drop

Voltage Drop

Here ya go.
Let me know if you see errors. #10 to the first two JB, then No. 12 for the rest for the one circuit.
plm.jpg
 
Here ya go.
Let me know if you see errors. #10 to the first two JB, then No. 12 for the rest for the one circuit.
View attachment 21897
In your drawing panel shows 7 branch circuits. I do not have 7 slots in panel. Only have one slot in the panel 277V single phase. Single branch circuit feeding all those light poles and splice as mentioned poster #1. How to do voltage drop in that situation?

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In your drawing panel shows 7 branch circuits. I do not have 7 slots in panel. Only have one slot in the panel 277V single phase. Single branch circuit feeding all those light poles and splice as mentioned poster #1. How to do voltage drop in that situation?

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It shows 7 individual runs to figure out for the one circuit. I showed this in multiple so you can see how it is figured. It will be one circuit for all the loads. They are all tied together in each JB. #10 to the panel from JB1 is one circuit after the calculation. Each run has been calculated for 3% VD in the Excel sheet, then the total CM added at the bottom. That's how I ended up with a CM number. Then find the CM conductor in the codebook that will accommodate. Also, JB#2 is just above #12 in CM so it's also #10. The rest is number #12 since that is the minimum per code for 20 Amp breaker at the panel. You have a total of 14 amp shown, so 20A is fine.
 
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It shows 7 individual runs to figure out for the one circuit. I showed this in multiple so you can see how it is figured. It will be one circuit for all the loads. They are all tied together in each JB. #10 to the panel from JB1 is one circuit after the calculation. Each run has been calculated for 3% VD in the Excel sheet, then the total CM added at the bottom. That's how I ended up with a CM number. Then find the CM conductor in the codebook that will accommodate. Also, JB#2 is just above #12 in CM so it's also #10. The rest is number #12 since that is the minimum per code for 20 Amp breaker at the panel. You have a total of 14 amp shown, so 20A is fine.
Ok so I pull from 20 amp breaker #10 wire to light pole#1 then from pole #1 same #10 wire to pole #2.

At pole #2 I would join #12 to #10. Then go to pole #3 and another #12 to pole #4. Going from #10 to #12 that would be tap not splice.

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Ok so I pull from 20 amp breaker #10 wire to light pole#1 then from pole #1 same #10 wire to pole #2.

At pole #2 I would join #12 to #10. Then go to pole #3 and another #12 to pole #4. Going from #10 to #12 that would be tap not splice.

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Yes, that is what I came up with based on the calculation. Yes, you would splice together # 10 and #12 together at JB #2 going to JB 3.

The lengths for VD are all the way to the pole fixture for this problem. This is not a perfect real problem since I usually add #12 up the pole from the JB to the fixture. The Autocad drawing was to show how we do the problem showing each length to the panel.

I do little VD problems these days. It's what I remember in a Mike Holt's class many moons ago... But if it's correct, it STUCK! If not, someone please chime in...

Gary
 
I have to say I like this approach to dealing with voltage drop. The common approach to voltage drop issues is to figure the current along each length of wire, and then calculate the voltage drop along each length of wire.

If I understand the way Gary approached the calculation, he separately calculated the distance to each load, and then calculated the copper cross section necessary to get the desired voltage drop at the load. The cross section is in circular mills. Then, for each section of circuit that serves multiple loads, the circular mills for each load are added up. Finally wires are selected that are larger than the circular mill requirements of each length of circuit.

Bingo: right to the necessary wire size.

-Jon
 
Gary nethod givs wire size if wire size ia unkbown but lets says for a given wire of #2 awg how can his method determine % voltage drop?

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Method gives wire size if wire size is unknown but lets says for a given wire of #2 awg how can his method determine % voltage drop?

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Method gives wire size if wire size is unknown but lets says for a given wire of #2 awg how can his method determine % voltage drop?

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He calculated minimum conductor size needed to give minimum target for VD.

If you already know you will have a certain conductor size, then you must know the current and length and calculate what drop will be in that segment of the run.
 
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=195493&page=2

That is a different calculation based on the same basic physics.

The equation 2 K I D / VD = CM breaks down to:
2 -- multiplying factor since you are going out and back. (You might use other factors for 3 phase calculations or well balanced line-neutral situations)
K -- this is the resistivity of copper, given in ohms per circular mil per foot. You could have a different K for aluminium, different temperatures, or if you use different units (square mm and meters for example)
I -- this is the current required by the load
D -- this is the distance, given in the same units you used for distance in K
VD -- this is the allowed voltage drop in volts
CM -- the cross section in circular mils

If you know the circular mill area of your wire and want to know the voltage drop, you just flip the equation around:
2 KID / CM = VD

So you would generate the same sort of table that Gary gave, showing the total current flowing on each section of the 'map' of the circuit. Then using the wire size for each section of the map use the above equation to calculate the voltage drop for that section. At each load, the voltage drop is the total of all the section drops from the source.

This is only an approximation, since the current consumed by a load will change with the voltage applied to it, and the K factor changes with things like temperature. But for only a few % voltage drop the approximation is usually close enough.

-Jon
 
Method gives wire size if wire size is unknown but lets says for a given wire of #2 awg how can his method determine % voltage drop?

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If you want to use a #2 AWG at Panel to JB #1, the voltage drop will be;

VD= 2KID/CM

VD= 2 * 12.9 * 14 * 20 / 66360 #2 = 66360 CM Per NEC Tables

VD= .1088

Not much VD at 20' with #2AWG

It will increase as we go down the line and we can do the math to show it at each JB, but it will never get above 3% since we know the #10 and #12 was still under 3%. Do you want the math shown down the line, too?

Thinking about for a sec, I think I will have to go to a resistance problem as we head down to the next JB... Thinking! lol... I need my Coffee!

I'm not sure this is what you're asking for...
 
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