Voltage Drop

Status
Not open for further replies.

wmeek

Senior Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
I have a case where we need a circuit to feed a sign that is 475' from panel in a bldg. If I use 2KIL/VD 3%. The load is 12.1Amps . The sign is a LED Lighting.
Where do you find the K factor of the wire, using THHN.
Asumming you use 11 for the copper conductor, would this be correct.
2x11x12.1x475/120 3%=35,123CM=#4 thhn
Would you use a higher % on the voltage drop percentage for this application.

Thanks
 
Have you considered running it at a higher voltage?

Is there 480 in the building?

With the cost of copper it might be a good option.
 
wmeek said:
Where do you find the K factor of the wire
K= 12.9 for Cu at 75?C
K= 21.2 for Al at 75?C

This is resistance in ohm's of one circular mil foot of conductor.

Look at tha values in Chapter 9 Table 8 for ohm/kFT for 1000 kcmil.
 
Higher voltage is not an option. Is my calculation OK. Would the K factor change it much. I was really just checking to see if my voltage drop calculation is correct. It is also considered a continuous load.
 
I assume you have a single 20 amp 120 volt circuit in mind?

If so the EGC will be required to be as large as the circuit condutors. 250.122(B)
 
Hey Roger
If the sign is LED Lights and fed from a Transformer to feed the lights. What do you think would be a reasonable % to use for the calculation to make it work.
 
It would be hard for me to say, I would see if the manufacturer sets some parameters.

I would think that 5% would be safe though.

Roger
 
wmeek said:
Higher voltage is not an option.

No place to fit this little guy out at the sign?

d_3091.jpg


GE 9T51B0012 - 480 Volt, 2 KVA Dry Type/Cased Isolated General Purpose 1-Ph Transformer

Even if you need another at the building you may come out less then the copper and pipe for 120.

Just a suggestion, take it or leave it. :)
 
Hey Bob
In this situation, I have a three 20 amps circuits feeding this sign. 1-10.8A load, 2-12.1A loads. I am considering installing another Meter Loop for the sign. Even at that,the closes I can get it to the sign is approx. 250' . I would still need to run #8 to keep the voltage drop at 5%.
 
wmeek, you ask if a change in the K factor would change the voltage drop much. Well the voltage drop is directly proportional to the 'K' factor; double K and you double voltage drop. Of course, the 'K' factor is pretty much a property of the material in question, however it is strongly affected by temperature.

The K factor for copper at 20C is about 10.2. If you are increasing the size of the wire so dramatically in order to deal with voltage drop, then the wire won't self heat very much, and will pretty much sit at ambient temperature. Cooler wire has lower resistance, thus producing less voltage drop.

While you may be limited to 120V, is it possible that your sign circuit could be subdivided? If you can break your single 120V 13A load into several 120V sub-loads, then you may be able to run a multi-wire branch circuit, and effectively convert the sign into a 208 or 240V load.

In terms of how much voltage drop you should design with (3%, 5%, more), that will depend upon the specific design and requirements of the LED power supply in the sign. It is possible that the power supply is some sort of switching regulator that will happily function and maintain proper output with a very large voltage drop. On the other hand, if the sign uses a simple resistive current limiter, then a reduction in supply voltage could make the sign much dimmer. Without knowing the details of the load, there is no way of knowing what sort of voltage drop is acceptable.

-Jon
 
wmeek said:
Hey Bob
In this situation, I have a three 20 amps circuits feeding this sign. 1-10.8A load, 2-12.1A loads.

Do you have three phase or single phase power?

With loads so balanced, a MWBC makes lots of sense. This effectively removes the voltage drop on the neutral, and thus halves the voltage drop as seen by the individual single phase circuits.

-Jon
 
wmeek said:
Hey Bob
In this situation, I have a three 20 amps circuits feeding this sign.

You can not feed a separate structure with 3 circuits.

You would have to make it a single multi wire branch circuit or a feeder to a panel at the sign.

See 225.30.

But as Winnie notes a MWBC makes good sense.
 
I only have single phase 120/240V. So I would be able to run 1Hot and 1Neutral ckt#1. 2 hots and 1 Neutral for other loads. So are you saying the circuit by itself would be 120V for voltage drop, and the 2 circuits could be at 240V
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top