wall spacing

[first class]

A 12 x 12 foot addition was added to the rear of an existing dwelling.Bench seating was built and installed along the entire width of the north wall and half way down the east wall. This seating was permanently attached to the structure and is now part of the permanent finish of the room. The seating is hinged so the inside of the bench can be used as storage. The inspector is citing 210.52(A)(1) and wants me to install outlets along the front of the seats to comply with the 6 ft spacing requirement. My contention is that as permanent seating it is no longer wall space and also to have outlets that would be behind your legs if you were sitting down would more of a safety hazard with them than it would be without them and what would be placed on the seat that would need to be plugged in such as a lamp or a tv. What do you think?

 

[david]

Re: wall spacing

Would floor receptacles be an option? What is this room designed for? Is this a built in patio, sun room,

From what you posted it seems this is a hard call
your inspectors seems to be saying this is still wall space a is asking for the rec.

 

[first class]

Re: wall spacing

The people who live there read alot and they say that this room is to just sit and relax and read,there is track lite above the entire bench shine down for reading

 

[george t. everett]

Re: wall spacing

I have never been required to install outlets in a seating area. I too think this is not wall space.

 

[charlie b]

Re: wall spacing

This is a tough one. You won?t find any other code section that absolutely affirms or refutes the inspector?s stance. Clearly, if one can sit on something, then that something is not a ?wall.? The description in 210.52(A)(2) tends to support your position, in that the bench causes the space to no longer be ?unbroken along the floor line.? So you could use this section to contend that no receptacles are required there. That?s your best shot.

However, if this bench is along the entire 12? side north wall, then there would be no receptacles at all along that wall. The code?s intent would not allow for such a large area to have no receptacles. But interpretation of the code?s intent lies within the purview of the inspector. My prediction is that the inspector will win this one. You could get by with one receptacle in the middle (so that it is no more than 6 feet from either side). Instead on thinking of a lamp on the bench, think of trying to use a vacuum cleaner or a buffer, without having a receptacle nearby.

 

[first class]

Re: wall spacing

The bench is unbroken along the north wall and extends 6 ft down the east wall in a direction of north to south. On the west side of the bench the cased opening goes into the kitchen area with a receptacle on the counter area to the immediate west side of the seat. Vacumms generally come with extra long cords as well as other electrically powered cleaning equiptment. At the end of the bench on the east wall a receptacle was installed 3 ft that end.

 

[iwire]

Re: wall spacing

Firstclass I do not mean to seem rude, but what's the big deal put in one or two outlets and be done with it.

Bob

 

[first class]

Re: wall spacing

Bob, I don't care what you think about my name but when somebody gets hurt from something that I did it is my liability insurance that pays no matter what the inspector thinks or says.

 

[iwire]

Re: wall spacing

Cool but how does your liability insurance come into play.

By your account this outlet will never be used, so how will it hurt anybody.

You asked a question on a public forum and here is a response from one member of the public.

I think you are trying to circumvent the intent of the code, I think the inspector is right to ask for this outlet and I think you will end up putting it in regardless of the customer saying they do not need it.

Just my opinion good luck.

Bob

 

[first class]

Re: wall spacing

Bob,as far as I am concerned the customer does not write the code and that whether or not the customer wants it is immaterial to this matter. In my opinion this is like a accident waiting to happen and at this time the inspector and I are at nose to nose over this. I see you are also from Massachusetts and to let you know that I have already filed an appealed to the state board of electrical examiners and at this time waiting for a hearing date. I appreciate yours and others input whether positive or negitive. Will let you know how I make out with the state. I thank you for your time and have a nice weekend. Kevin

 

[iwire]

Re: wall spacing

Kevin, thanks and you have a good one too.


If it would only stop raining maybe we would both have a better weekend.

Bob

 

[pierre]

Re: wall spacing

Bob

Did you say it was raining? I did not notice, it is too dark out to see anymore.

Pierre

 

[pierre]

Re: wall spacing

First class

I can understand your frustration and concern. What about installing a clock outlet type of receptacle? That would probably keep the inspector and you both happy. Can a floor receptacle be installed in the vertical position? If so you could cover the receptacle. With so much 'wall' space occupied by the seating, I am also sure you will have to install at least one receptacle.

Pierre

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: wall spacing

Exactly when did our job become "To keep the inspector happy?" I just went throught this with an "Inspector". It was in a kitchen, all walls had cabinets. one wall had a picture window with an eight foot window seat (with storage under) under it, pantry cabinet to the left, pantry to the right. This is not wall space. He suggested receptacles above the seat that could be hidden behind pillows. I refused saying this is far more dangerous than no receptacle at all. He says this is a large area without a receptacle and what if the next owner takes out the window seat and then needs a receptacle. I say then they have one installed I am wiring for current use and thats it. He says if he can come up with a good reason to put one in I have to do it and he doesn't give a bleep when or how it's going in! This guy is legendary around here and is just plain hated. Lets be real about this. In my case and the other one above there are plenty of other receptacles in the room. There is no issue with a vacuum or such as a person will likely find and use the nearest receptacle available.

 

[iwire]

Re: wall spacing

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Exactly when did our job become "To keep the inspector happy?"

Scott, forget about the inspector I thought when we got our licenses we agreed to abide by the NEC (or MEC in our case)

The code wants outlets all around a room, I did not know that if it was difficult we could chose not to do it. :roll:

I do agree that outlets behind pillows did seem like a bad idea.

Pierre's idea of a clock outlet sounds like a good solution don't you think?

Bob

 

[george t. everett]

Re: wall spacing

Scott,
We have a have a few inspectors in my area that try to over think and not use common sense.