Warm Breakers vs Cold Breakers

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Sunset

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They just delivered our new Full Modular Home. It came in three sections and has a 200 Amp service. Since it's new, the builder has to correct everything that is incorrect, or until we accept the package.

After switching on every checking and marking all the breakers in the fuse panel to ID each room and circuit, (just because I want to know if they doubled up any circuits) I found that the breakers on the left side are warm and the breakers on the right side of the panel are cold, (Or Room Temp).
The meter is barely turning, but it is turning.
Nothing is on in the house except the Smoke Detector circuit. One 20 amp breaker handles all 12 smoke detectors.

All 8 single pole breakers on the left side are warm to the touch when switched on, while all 8 single pole breakers on the right side of the panel are room temp.

I just turned all breakers, including the smoke detector off to let cool and recheck this afternoon.

With the breakers on, but no lights on, only the smoke circuit on the left side gets warm. It may be from only one circuit thats warming up the rest.

Should any breaker get warm to the touch if hardly any power is used thru that circuit?
Thanks
 
All the warm breakers on the left side have the tiny yellow soft button on the GFI breakers where the larger Ground fault reset button are located.
Honestly, since retiring, I have not seen this type of breakers. The breakers on the right side of the panel are not GFI.
The normal GFI breakers with the white reset in the panel are room temp or cool.
 
Sunset said:
All the warm breakers on the left side have the tiny yellow soft button on the GFI breakers where the larger Ground fault reset button are located.
Honestly, since retiring, I have not seen this type of breakers. The breakers on the right side of the panel are not GFI.
The normal GFI breakers with the white reset in the panel are room temp or cool.
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Those are the arc fault breakers. Grouping them together, IMO, is not a good idea. When I install a panel I leave about two spaces between them. I am not sure of why they tend to get hot or if they do but I have had problems when they were grouped.
 
Sunset, I have heard that the electronics in the AFCI breakers do cause heat and it is normal.

This is the reason IMO that Eaton made the proposal to do away with the maximum 42 circuit limitation in panels. Given the fact that they are also driving for the whole house AFCI requirement, this would allow more spaces to spread these heat generators out, but this is another thread. :wink:

Roger
 
YES, AFCI's

YES, AFCI's

Yes, the warm six breakers on the left side are AFCI's.

Since they are a new design, do they warm up as a normal operating temp, even if there are no loads on the circuits at all? As if the breakers are on but the load is 0. Do they still warm up?

If yes, the problem and my question is solved. If not, I still have a concern about safety.
Thanks
 
Sunset said:
Yes, the warm six breakers on the left side are AFCI's.

Since they are a new design, do they warm up as a normal operating temp, even if there are no loads on the circuits at all? As if the breakers are on but the load is 0. Do they still warm up?

If yes, the problem and my question is solved. If not, I still have a concern about safety.
Thanks
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Yes, as Roger mentioned, the AFCI breakers contain active electronic circuits, so they do get warm under normal operating conditions.
 
The AFCI CBs that Roger is mentioning do create their own heat due the the micro electronics inside of the device. With the advent of the new design which will be available soon if not already in some locations, the micro electronics have been redesigned (all manufacturers have followed suit on the electronic redesign). With the change, the electronics will use less energy and will be noticeably cooler in operating temperatures.

Note: the existing devices do get warm to the touch, even without a load. This is the operating temperature and in no way does it cause harm to the CB. So there should be no alarm.
 
Pierre,
With the advent of the new design which will be available soon if not already in some locations, the micro electronics have been redesigned (all manufacturers have followed suit on the electronic redesign).
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Really? There are only three listings for the combination type AFCI device at this time, only two of those are from major breaker manufactuters and only one claims to have an actual device on the marker (however as far as I know no one has seen one in a supply house). I am assuming that if the others don't have a listing they don't have a complete design or that the design they have is not functional.
Don
 
Siemens has a combo AFCI available for order now. Its not the production version, which will be out later this year.
 
Sunset said:
I found that the breakers on the left side are warm and the breakers on the right side of the panel are cold, Thanks
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Maybe a plumber is moonlighting as an electrician?
 
Tom,
Siemens has a combo AFCI available for order now.
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Have you actually seen one? I don't know of anyone who has actually seen the device. Even the local supply house who is a Siemens dealer has no idea when he will have any in stock and Siemens can't or won't give him a date. Thier big letter strongly implied that they are available now, but that shouldn't suprise me given the history of misinformation about this product from the manufacturers.
Don
 
engy said:
Maybe a plumber is moonlighting as an electrician?
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lol.gif
And electrons don't flow uphill?
 
Remember the old days

Remember the old days

engy said:
Maybe a plumber is moonlighting as an electrician?
Click to expand...


Remember in the old days before electronics, the breakers were cold if there was no load............

Also remember, the old screw in fuses and the slow blow fuses were high teck when I was working...............

Give an old man a break..............

Maybe too many shocks over the years.............
 
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