I just had a bizzare electrical encounter. I went to a trouble call and when I got there the lady told me her Maytag combo washer/dryer decided to stop woking properly After 7 months of faithful service. She had a maytag tech there and he told her that the neutral is dropping out when loaded. The first thing I discovered is that there was no neutral but a 10/2 with ground connected to a 3 prong dryer recep. I read 240v between the ungrounded conductors and 126v on one to ground and 105v on the other to ground. The bonding strap on the terminal block center lug was connected to the frame because of the 10/2 feed as it should be. But I also read 120 volts to ground off the 30A breaker feeding it. Now for the fun part. When I plugged the unit in, I read 3 volts to ground on one leg & 238 volts to ground on the other!! I think it was an open heater coil in the dryer. I told her to contact Maytag. P.S. I checked the ground connection in the panel and it was good. The other thing that comes to mind is someone tapped off the feed where I can't see it. Your thoughts? Jerseyboy
washer/dryer combo
- Thread starter jerseyboy
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hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: washer/dryer combo
You have a neutral that has a bad connection somewhere between the panel and the laundry unit. It is imperative that you find it as you see it can shoot 240 volts to one side of the circuit that would normally be only 120 volts this can do damage and also can cause a fire. The heater element run's on 240 volts and does not use the neutral so it would not be the problem. What does is the timer/control circuit and any lights in it. Check the neutral connection at the panel ,at the plug, and try to see if there is any other junction box's ask if the receptacle was relocated.
This is a lost neutral problem as the repair man is correct.
You have a neutral that has a bad connection somewhere between the panel and the laundry unit. It is imperative that you find it as you see it can shoot 240 volts to one side of the circuit that would normally be only 120 volts this can do damage and also can cause a fire. The heater element run's on 240 volts and does not use the neutral so it would not be the problem. What does is the timer/control circuit and any lights in it. Check the neutral connection at the panel ,at the plug, and try to see if there is any other junction box's ask if the receptacle was relocated.
This is a lost neutral problem as the repair man is correct.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: washer/dryer combo
Wayne, I think you are 100%.
BTW, are you going to the IAEI meeting in Lafayette?
Wayne, I think you are 100%.
BTW, are you going to the IAEI meeting in Lafayette?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: washer/dryer combo
You do know that 10-2 is illegal,right ?
You do know that 10-2 is illegal,right ?
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: washer/dryer combo
If you are replacing the circuit, I would assume that you will use 10-3/Gr and bring the whole installation to the current Code.
If you are replacing the circuit, I would assume that you will use 10-3/Gr and bring the whole installation to the current Code.
Re: washer/dryer combo
Hurk27, Thanks for the response. This wire does not have a grounded conductor. Only a grounding conductor. The neutral loads in the unit rely on the grounding conductor. The unit should of had a 4 prond plug and a new 10/3 w/ ground installed. I discovered that the neutral connection in the sub had a bonding strap connected to the enclosure. This should be removed but the wires coming in to the sub (2-ungrounded, Neutral and equipment ground) do not correspond in the main. The main panel only has 2 phase legs and a grounding conductor leaving the panel to feed the sub. somebody must have made a splice somewhere and tied the gray covered neutral to the equipment ground. I am going to run a new feed to the sub as well. There is another sub panel I can run the 10/3 from and those connections are all good. I suspect that somewhere between the breaker and the dryer recep the ground is loose. This wire will have to be de-energized & abandoned. BTW, when I read the conductors to a ground terminal on an adjacent outlet I got 120v. Thanks, JB
Hurk27, Thanks for the response. This wire does not have a grounded conductor. Only a grounding conductor. The neutral loads in the unit rely on the grounding conductor. The unit should of had a 4 prond plug and a new 10/3 w/ ground installed. I discovered that the neutral connection in the sub had a bonding strap connected to the enclosure. This should be removed but the wires coming in to the sub (2-ungrounded, Neutral and equipment ground) do not correspond in the main. The main panel only has 2 phase legs and a grounding conductor leaving the panel to feed the sub. somebody must have made a splice somewhere and tied the gray covered neutral to the equipment ground. I am going to run a new feed to the sub as well. There is another sub panel I can run the 10/3 from and those connections are all good. I suspect that somewhere between the breaker and the dryer recep the ground is loose. This wire will have to be de-energized & abandoned. BTW, when I read the conductors to a ground terminal on an adjacent outlet I got 120v. Thanks, JB
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: washer/dryer combo
Remember I'm HOOKED!!!
You know I wouldn't missit for the world.
Remember I'm HOOKED!!!
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: washer/dryer combo
Well, Wayne, I'll see you next Wednesday then.
Well, Wayne, I'll see you next Wednesday then.
Re: washer/dryer combo
Hi jerseyboy,
Also check to see if the grounding conductor is making connection to the common frame through the receptacles (if used). If they are not, that may be a ground fault hazard concern.
The 10-2 scenario is pretty fishy to start with. Is that a direct hookup or does Maytag supply two appliance connections with their combo? (as they should to comply with [210.52(F)]and [210.11(C)(2)]).
rbj, Seattle
[ February 05, 2005, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: gndrod ]
Hi jerseyboy,
Does the washer still work? I am curious if the Maytag combo is unit connected with the washer BC neutral as a common hookup that may have opened. Reason is that if the combo worked for 7 months with the 10-2 w/gnd intact, the common configuration may have been the case.
Also check to see if the grounding conductor is making connection to the common frame through the receptacles (if used). If they are not, that may be a ground fault hazard concern.
The 10-2 scenario is pretty fishy to start with. Is that a direct hookup or does Maytag supply two appliance connections with their combo? (as they should to comply with [210.52(F)]and [210.11(C)(2)]).
rbj, Seattle
[ February 05, 2005, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: gndrod ]
karl riley
Senior Member
Re: washer/dryer combo
You seem to know what you are doing, so it might not be necessary to remind you to disconnect the bond from neutral to case in the dryer once you bring in a four-pronged circuit, right?
Karl
You seem to know what you are doing, so it might not be necessary to remind you to disconnect the bond from neutral to case in the dryer once you bring in a four-pronged circuit, right?
Karl
Re: washer/dryer combo
Absolutely. That came out. ( the bonding strap). I had to run a 10/3 as you have to have an insulated grounded conductor (the noodle) Connected for the unbalanced load & return path. I abandoned the original wire that was put in by the homeowner previous and installed a 4-prong 30A recep. Also had to run a new 3 conductor plus grounding conductor to the sub because it did not have one. I isolated the nuetral bus from the enclosure (sub) by removing the strap and terminated all grounding conductors to added ground bar & all grounded conductors to neutral bus. The thing that threw me off when I first went there was the voltage imbalance until I plugged in the unit. Then It was clear that I lost the ground potential somewhere. I read 0 volts on one leg & 240 on the other. (the one heding back to panel) The unit has one plug. I'm glad I got it squared away. Thanks everybody.
Absolutely. That came out. ( the bonding strap). I had to run a 10/3 as you have to have an insulated grounded conductor (the noodle) Connected for the unbalanced load & return path. I abandoned the original wire that was put in by the homeowner previous and installed a 4-prong 30A recep. Also had to run a new 3 conductor plus grounding conductor to the sub because it did not have one. I isolated the nuetral bus from the enclosure (sub) by removing the strap and terminated all grounding conductors to added ground bar & all grounded conductors to neutral bus. The thing that threw me off when I first went there was the voltage imbalance until I plugged in the unit. Then It was clear that I lost the ground potential somewhere. I read 0 volts on one leg & 240 on the other. (the one heding back to panel) The unit has one plug. I'm glad I got it squared away. Thanks everybody.
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