Washington electrical administration test

[jst442]

That makes sense I really appreciate your time! Is the

Just to add a little more of an example:
For the two family optional your summing up all of the following the items (1)-(5) under 220.84(C):

1. Add up the total square feet of both units and figure 3 VA per square foot.
2. 1500 VA for each Kitchen Appliance and each laundry circuit If the question does not specify the number of small appliance circuits, figure two kitchen circuits for each unit. If it does not mention a laundry area there is no laundry circuit [210.52(F)].
3. From both units all the nameplates of the following:
   1. All Appliances that are fastened in place or on a dedicated circuit etc.
   2. Ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units at namplate, only if specified in the question. If namplate is not specified use 8kW as per 220.84(A) Exception.
   3. Electric Clothes dryer namplates only if stated in the question.
   4. Water heater namplate only if specified in the question.
4. VA of motors, if the motor is given in only HP you need to use the table 430.248 to get the amps and 220.6 for voltage.
5. Sum up the above.
6. Multiply that total by 1.5 to create 3 'ghost units' of equal size.
7. Apply the 45% demand factor.

Effectively steps 6 and 7 apply a 67.5% demand factor to the sum.

Just to add a little more of an example:
For the two family optional your summing up all of the following the items (1)-(5) under 220.84(C):

1. Add up the total square feet of both units and figure 3 VA per square foot.
2. 1500 VA for each Kitchen Appliance and each laundry circuit If the question does not specify the number of small appliance circuits, figure two kitchen circuits for each unit. If it does not mention a laundry area there is no laundry circuit [210.52(F)].
3. From both units all the nameplates of the following:
   1. All Appliances that are fastened in place or on a dedicated circuit etc.
   2. Ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units at namplate, only if specified in the question. If namplate is not specified use 8kW as per 220.84(A) Exception.
   3. Electric Clothes dryer namplates only if stated in the question.
   4. Water heater namplate only if specified in the question.
4. VA of motors, if the motor is given in only HP you need to use the table 430.248 to get the amps and 220.6 for voltage.
5. Sum up the above.
6. Multiply that total by 1.5 to create 3 'ghost units' of equal size.
7. Apply the 45% demand factor.

Effectively steps 6 and 7 apply a 67.5% demand factor to the sum.

Wow that makes a lot of sense. I really appreciate you clarifying it! Thank you for your time I owe you big time!

 

[letgomywago]

Certainly I don't support cheating, but I also don't like being told that there is a law against something when there may not be. Do you know this supposed law? I am skeptical that in America it's illegal to "copy" a test question.

But I think they could get someone taking the test for "seeking out" answers for cheating purposes. Sort of like pilots only getting "certified" so the government doesn't need a trial to remove a "license"

 

[b1miller]

I can attest that it is a difficult test. I missed one too many questions on my first attempt. I spent 3 weeks studying every night going through my study questions before retaking the test. Luckily I only had to take the section that I did not pass. It was still hard but I passed the second time. I know several electricians who have failed 3 times.

 

[jst442]

Good question. There were instructors who paid electricians to take the test and afterwords write up what they could remember for the instructor. This shoes the value in being an electrician and how some are motivated to cheat. By the way there is a fine associated with copying test questions so it’s more than a copyright issue

Just to be clear my quotation of the test isn't exactly what the question was on the test. It was similar. I don't know the exact question but it is what I could remember. If remember a question is cheating than I don't see how ill ever learn. I've bought at least 12 books on electrical literature and I have watched many videos. I couldn't seem to find a lot on those particular question on the test. So I did seek out for help. Not to cheat. There is at least 12 cameras in that building. I think it would be stupid to chest cause you will get caught. Thanks to you guys it helped. I don't know any other way to ask for help.

 

[magniankh]

I've taken the test 3 times and failed. Can't get better than 6/10 and now I have to wait 3 months before taking it again.

I, too, got much too high of an answer on the motor question than anything they provided.

The dwelling unit calcs are very strange; every one of them tells you to omit the laundry loads, even on the duplexes, but does that mean that you also do not apply 1500 VA per unit for a laundry circuit? I am guessing not because the 1500 VA laundry circuit is for laundry equipment per 210.52 F exceptions.

Another thing about the test is that their answers are within 4a of one another, making the test absurdly difficult, and not even relevant as it wouldn't matter if you got 354a or 365a for a service calc because you would size up to a 400a breaker anyway for a duplex.

One question I have is if the test is expecting you to use 220.85? That section says that for a two-dwelling unit you can use the optional method and calculate the two-dwelling unit as a three-dwelling and use the lowest value. I have a feeling a couple of the questions are expecting this.

 

[electrofelon]

I've taken the test 3 times and failed. Can't get better than 6/10 and now I have to wait 3 months before taking it again.

I, too, got much too high of an answer on the motor question than anything they provided.

The dwelling unit calcs are very strange; every one of them tells you to omit the laundry loads, even on the duplexes, but does that mean that you also do not apply 1500 VA per unit for a laundry circuit? I am guessing not because the 1500 VA laundry circuit is for laundry equipment per 210.52 F exceptions.

Another thing about the test is that their answers are within 4a of one another, making the test absurdly difficult, and not even relevant as it wouldn't matter if you got 354a or 365a for a service calc because you would size up to a 400a breaker anyway for a duplex.

One question I have is if the test is expecting you to use 220.85? That section says that for a two-dwelling unit you can use the optional method and calculate the two-dwelling unit as a three-dwelling and use the lowest value. I have a feeling a couple of the questions are expecting this.

Well hang in there you'll get it.

I dont remember the test very well as it was 12 years ago, but I would think they should tell you which method to use where there are multipole options.

 

[letgomywago]

I've taken the test 3 times and failed. Can't get better than 6/10 and now I have to wait 3 months before taking it again.

I, too, got much too high of an answer on the motor question than anything they provided.

The dwelling unit calcs are very strange; every one of them tells you to omit the laundry loads, even on the duplexes, but does that mean that you also do not apply 1500 VA per unit for a laundry circuit? I am guessing not because the 1500 VA laundry circuit is for laundry equipment per 210.52 F exceptions.

Another thing about the test is that their answers are within 4a of one another, making the test absurdly difficult, and not even relevant as it wouldn't matter if you got 354a or 365a for a service calc because you would size up to a 400a breaker anyway for a duplex.

One question I have is if the test is expecting you to use 220.85? That section says that for a two-dwelling unit you can use the optional method and calculate the two-dwelling unit as a three-dwelling and use the lowest value. I have a feeling a couple of the questions are expecting this.

Yes on the optional for the duplex. The other stuff is because the answer is among the most common wrong answers. It's annoying but you can do it. Write everything out on the scratch paper and remember to differentiate optional from standard. When I was practicing it was hard to not include demand factors in the optional calcs.

 

[tom baker]

Just out of curiosity Tom, isn't the NEC copyrighted also? We paste direct passages of that all the time, why is that ok but a rough recollection of a test question is not? (Genuinely curious, not being snarky).

That restriction is in the state electrical rules, (WAC 296-46B). It was added as instructors were paying students to take the test and memorize the questions for the instructor

 

[Paul_Briganti]

Hello all...

This is what you are looking for.

19.28.161.
Cheating on an examination.
(12) Anyone found cheating on an examination, attempting to bribe a proctor or other agent involved in administering an examination, or using inappropriate materials/equipment during an examination will be required to wait at least eleven months before being allowed to reexamine. All such reexaminations will be administered by the department in Tumwater, Washington and the candidate will be required to apply and schedule for the examination with the chief electrical inspector. The department may also file a civil penalty action under chapter 19.28 RCW.
Examination confidentiality.
(13) All examination questions are confidential. Examination candidates and persons who have taken an examination are not allowed to copy or otherwise make note of or share examination content, in any manner, outside the individual's examination environment. Examination candidates must agree, prior to beginning an examination, to keep all examination content confidential. The department may also file a civil penalty action under chapter 19.28 RCW.

 

[tortuga]

Hello all...

This is what you are looking for.

19.28.161.
Cheating on an examination.
(12) Anyone found cheating on an examination, attempting to bribe a proctor or other agent involved in administering an examination, or using inappropriate materials/equipment during an examination will be required to wait at least eleven months before being allowed to reexamine. All such reexaminations will be administered by the department in Tumwater, Washington and the candidate will be required to apply and schedule for the examination with the chief electrical inspector. The department may also file a civil penalty action under chapter 19.28 RCW.
Examination confidentiality.
(13) All examination questions are confidential. Examination candidates and persons who have taken an examination are not allowed to copy or otherwise make note of or share examination content, in any manner, outside the individual's examination environment. Examination candidates must agree, prior to beginning an examination, to keep all examination content confidential. The department may also file a civil penalty action under chapter 19.28 RCW.

Thats interesting, someone discussing a test question from memory on a international forum, cant really be considered ' copy or otherwise make note of examination content' . I wonder if the implied 'sharing from memory' aspect law has ever been tested in court. There are circumstances under the fair use doctrine where a quote or a sample of the test may be used without permission, especially if its from memory. And of course a state law is only enforceable in that state, the correct CFR would be if the test is a secure test under 37 CFR § 202.13, which it probably is, but still 'sharing from memory' would be exempt, as that is not a perfect copy, per the legal definition.

 

[tom baker]

This shows the value of the certification and what some will do to pass. The residential exam has been a 22% pass rate, journeylevel is around 55%, the rest folks are just not prepared. If you get caught cheating you will tetae the exam ins room with video cameras. One person caught tried to bribe the test agent and commented “that’s the way we do it in my country”.

 

[letgomywago]

This shows the value of the certification and what some will do to pass. The residential exam has been a 22% pass rate, journeylevel is around 55%, the rest folks are just not prepared. If you get caught cheating you will tetae the exam ins room with video cameras. One person caught tried to bribe the test agent and commented “that’s the way we do it in my country”.

That's crazy I was mostly worried at the admin test because the lady at psi wanted to run me out for bringing a wac in printed form and I had to show her I'm allowed to bring that in with the cut sheet info from psi. From that moment on she was brutal and was that way to the realtors taking their test too. My 02 in WA and OR I took at a college and was much better environment and I didn't mind the cameras they were inconspicuous. The psi people kept checking my stuff after starting the colleges just look in the begining.

Some places in the world they do the $$$ answers but I'd hope anyone here for a few years not think that works here.