Water coming out of meter base!

[mrdave]

Here's a good one for you. I just got a call from a client on a out of state project I did last summer. It's a vacation home in WA. The utility company phoned her to say that there is water coming out of the meter base.

I asumed that they meant the water was coming out of panel. I told her to call the contractor that put in the water pipes that were in the same trenches as the secondary conduits.

The well contractor went out to the site and determined that the water was actually bubbling out of the ground below the meter panel. Appearently the roughly 500 feet of trenching were acting as a "french drain". The meter location is at the lowest elevation on the property and the water from the 5 acres must be channeling to the trenched areas, soaking thru the clay soil (which doesn't hold water), into the sand bedding around the conduits, and making it's way down to the end of the trenches at the meter and coming up to the surface. The trenches were all backfilled and compacted well.

The main trench from meter to the home site closely follows the natural drainage path .

Has anyone ever seen anything like this before, and if so, are there any solutions to resolve this besides reworking site drainage in general?

I guess we could turn it into leach field for the septic system when ready. Is there anything in the code against having conduits in leach field? (Joke!)

 

[barbeer]

My first thought would have been, "at least water is not going in to the meter base, coming out is a-o.k..

 

[electricguy61]

I recently installed a 400amp service on a home on a hill side. The service came in overhead to a pole @ 70' uphill from the meter base, where we went down the pole to a 3' x 4' christy box (#1) at the base of the pole, then underground (4" PVC) to another christy (#2) at the base of the new service, then into the service.

#2 christy was only there to provide a way for drainage water from the up hill christy to stay out of the meter base. All of this was required by the POCO. The meterbase was @ 10' below the level of #1 christy, as it was a pretty steep hill. BTW, I also had to supply the 500mcm copper from the pole to the service.

$11K service

 

[RJohnsonMasterElectrician]

In the spring time water use to shoot like a water spout out of the conduit at the top of the pole, yes 30+ feet up the pole. The run is like 500' run down a mountain and obviously the person who put the conduit in the trench(probably an excavator) didn't use primer and or glue.

 

[IMM_Doctor]

I was doing some industrial machine work in New Hampsha. Behind the plant there was a large J-Box on the back of the building with 6 4" UG conduits coming into the bottom of it. The cover was intentionally peeled back at the bottom up for about 4".

I asked the shop manager why that was. He pointed out that the transformer was about 400' away, and about 25' higher in elevation. He said when it rained, they used to get floods inside the plant, coming out of the open bottom power distribution panels in the plant.

They decided to let the water outside the plant, as opposd to inside the plant, and that cover had been peeld back years ago.

 

[stickboy1375]

In the spring time water use to shoot like a water spout out of the conduit at the top of the pole, yes 30+ feet up the pole. The run is like 500' run down a mountain and obviously the person who put the conduit in the trench(probably an excavator) didn't use primer and or glue.

No need for primer, but the bells were probably facing the wrong direction.

 

[hillbilly1]

No need for primer, but the bells were probably facing the wrong direction.

I agree, but in Evansville Indianna you will use primer, apparently a local code, the inspector looks for it and will turn you down if he does not see it on the pipe joints.
I came upon a CVS in coastal South Carolina that had water leaking out of the meterbase. The 600 amp disconnect next to it was a Nema 7X, I think,(stainless,gasketed). The original installer failed to tighten the EMT compression fittings coming into the top of the disconnect and leaked like a sieve! At least they used myers hubs. The neutral bar was totally corroded and had to be replaced. Luckily the wires were routed as such that the breaker stayed dry. About two gallons of water came out the door when I opened it! The water coming out of meter base was traveling through the connecting nipples.

 

[K8MHZ]

Why are electricians so against using primer?

I like it. It smells good and it's pretty if you know how to do it.

 

[mxslick]

I was doing some industrial machine work in New Hampsha. Behind the plant there was a large J-Box on the back of the building with 6 4" UG conduits coming into the bottom of it. The cover was intentionally peeled back at the bottom up for about 4".

I asked the shop manager why that was. He pointed out that the transformer was about 400' away, and about 25' higher in elevation. He said when it rained, they used to get floods inside the plant, coming out of the open bottom power distribution panels in the plant.

They decided to let the water outside the plant, as opposd to inside the plant, and that cover had been peeld back years ago.

This must be what the Code means when they say "arranged to drain."

 

[RJohnsonMasterElectrician]

No need for primer, but the bells were probably facing the wrong direction.

This isn't directed towards you in a negative way stickboy when I am saying "you"

Well let me see where can I start. I didn't look to see where you are from but up in VT when it freezes a couple feet down in the winter. Its very wise to use both primer and glue to give you a water proof joint. If you happen to install conduit in a wet location and the conduit fills partially not even all the way and then freezes and you have a contractor breathing down your neck. But you can't get the wire pulled in because you wanted to save 8 bucks on a quart of primer, I don't find that very efficient.
Glue alone will not give you a water proof fit you need the primer, just go ask a plumber.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

In no way shape or form is any underground raceway meant to be waterproof. The only purpose for an underground raceway is to provide a future tunnel that is navigable by replacement conductors.

 

[marissa2]

Maybe one way to keep water out of the socket is to do what we have to do here in CT, install a slip-joint below the socket. It also provides for ground movement as well as a way out for the water.
Lou

 

[mtfallsmikey]

This isn't directed towards you in a negative way stickboy when I am saying "you"

Well let me see where can I start. I didn't look to see where you are from but up in VT when it freezes a couple feet down in the winter. Its very wise to use both primer and glue to give you a water proof joint. If you happen to install conduit in a wet location and the conduit fills partially not even all the way and then freezes and you have a contractor breathing down your neck. But you can't get the wire pulled in because you wanted to save 8 bucks on a quart of primer, I don't find that very efficient.
Glue alone will not give you a water proof fit you need the primer, just go ask a plumber.

And here I am......If you don't have proimer, sand the spigot/pipe, will do the same thing.

 

[mivey]

Glue alone will not give you a water proof fit you need the primer, just go ask a plumber.

How about the manufacturer?

1.1 To Prime or Not to Prime?
The National Electrical Code (NEC?) does not require primer to be used in
the joining of PVC conduit. However, under some conditions, primer can aid
in the ease of assembly and enhance the quality of the joints. Primers are
a form of chemical cleaner that may be used to remove surface impurities,
soften and dissolve the joining surfaces in order to better prepare them for
solvent-cementing.

1. Select the proper Solvent Cement and Primer (if needed) for your application
...
The above recommendations are for 73 degrees F. Primers are generally
used in colder temperatures. During hot weather, cements may
dry faster and thus higher viscosity cement than that listed above
may need to be used to get extra working time. High-viscosity cements
and higher wet-film thickness cements are not recommended
for small diameter pipe, except in very cold, dry weather.

Any reasonable person would agree that it would be better to use primer on a pressure joint. The question is: Do we need a pressure joint?

If you want to get the plumbing scoop:
http://www.astm.org/Standards/D2855.htm

 

[Glenn Anderson]

At our local US Army base housing units were rewired 400 amp services from the meter/main, underground to a riser pole then stright to the pot (transformer).
Even with a drip loop the rain water wicked thru the conductors at the pole pot and traveled to the meter!
Proved it by using red food die, took about six weeks to travel during the spring rainy season, lenth was about 150 feet over all, 120 feet underground.
See water and electricity do mix!

Glenn

 

[cmanningjr]

I've seen this a lot working for the power company. What they normally have us do is to capture the conduit and aqua seal around the end if it's not conduit all the way to the transformer. If it is, then we install a french drain around the transformer to prevent the water from getting in the conduit.

 

[K8MHZ]

Primer

Primer

Using primer, specifically purple in color, is a MIOSHA requirement. It is also forbidden to use glue purple in color.

Check out rule 539.

 

[G0049]

Using primer, specifically purple in color, is a MIOSHA requirement. It is also forbidden to use glue purple in color.

Check out rule 539.

Mark,
I've worked for MIOSHA for 36 years and can tell you we have no such requirement. We also don't have a rule 539. If you can provide more information, I'll see what I can track down.

 

[btharmy]

When installing a duct bank for the local poco around a new hospital I was reprimanded by someone who thought he was improtant, (found out later it was the head engineer's son in law, hired out of pitty) about the fact that I wasn't using primer on my conduit joints. "how do you expect those conduits to be water tight if you don't use primer" he says. " I don't" I say. "Then how are you going to keep the water out of the conduit if you don't use primer?" he asks. "How am I going to LET the water out of the conduit if I DO use primer". You see the conduits terminate 30" below grade in a pit below a poco switch gear. They WILL have water in them, no matter what. But without primer some of it might actually find its way out, sooner or later.