water damage

[tedge]

I have a customer who had major water damage in a vacation home this winter. Pipes burst, and nobody knew until water started running out the front door into the sidewalk. She had nearly a foot of water on the first floor, filling up all those nice baseboard receptacles. Also who knows how much in the ceilings before it collapsed. All the wiring in the home was done w/ BX.

So she calls me to take a look, and to try to get an estimate for the insurance company. My question is, is there any NEC, UL, or other rule stating that wire that gets wet HAS TO be changed? Maybe falling back on a "Uses not Permitted" argument might be the way to go. I just think that the insurance company might say "yeah the wiring is old, but there is nothing that says it MUST be changed, therefore we won't pay."

Any thoughts on how to word a letter to her insurance company with a compelling reason for them to pay for a re-wire?

 

[charlietuna]

Can't be much different than Hurricane damage we have worked in--it's up to the electrical contractor to determine the condition of the system-how you do that and how much it costs is between you and the customer. I document everything and take a lot of pictures, always worked for both the customer and their insurance company and never had a problem.

 

[The Iceman]

I think BX uses a 14 AWG aluminum wire wrapped around the metallic sheath as the equipment grounding conductor. I think once that aluminum wire gets wet it could corrode and break in side the BX. Then you would lose your effective ground-fault current path.

 

[Rewire]

Check with the Firemarshal and local inspector they can be helpful in these situations.

 

[zog]

Take a look at page 6 of this

 

[growler]

Pipes burst ,She had nearly a foot of water on the first floor, filling up all those nice baseboard receptacles. Also who knows how much in the ceilings before it collapsed. All the wiring in the home was done w/ BX.

With burst pipes and a collapsed ceiling she really needs to get a GC that's used to dealing with water damage on the job to assess total damage. With that much water there has to be considerable other damage and the possibility of mold. Find out how much the GC is going to have to tear out to correct the damage.

If they end up tearing enough of the existing out to repair the damage you will be expected to bring the areas where you are working up to code anyway and the easiest way to do that is to replace all damaged wiring.

Once the insurance company gets quotes from contractors to repair total damage they will either pay or try to negotiate. Once she get the check she can do whatever she wants. Now would be a good time to replace all the old wiring in the house ( with ceilings down). The owner may wish to kick in a few bucks and completely rewire the place.

As far as what to write up you can state it like this. In my opinion all damaged wiring must be replaced for safe operation. You are the licensed electrician and your opinion actually counts on this one. Give a high bid because insurance companies can only negotiate in the down direction.

 

[tedge]

Thanks for the replies.

This cable does not have an aluminum grounding conductor in it. Just two conductors with cloth insulation and a waxy cloth sheath inside a metal overall sheath. I believe that is the original BX from the 30's or 40's. In my opinion it is worse than properly done knob and tube, as it has that metal path back to the panel that knob and tube doesn't. I've seen charred floor joists where the metal sheath has obviously become hot.

This wiring should and will be changed, the HO was just hoping that there was some definitive verbage stating so.

I've talked to the local inspector. He's an inspector of all trades, and master of none. He just said to me with glazed eyes, "Our town follows the NEC."

It's an interesting idea about bringing any open walls up to current code. I'll have to ask him about that.

 

[fireryan]

when we had the floods in iowa here last summer we had many people with water up to the ceiling in there basement. ahj made us replace all of the wiring. Maybe you could tell the insurance company that

 

[growler]

This wiring should and will be changed, the HO was just hoping that there was some definitive verbage stating so.

I've talked to the local inspector. He's an inspector of all trades, and master of none. He just said to me with glazed eyes, "Our town follows the NEC."

If you need verbage then check the NEMA guide lines for dealing with water damaged electrical equipment. They state pretty clearly that any cable not listed for wet locations that is subjected to water damage must be replaced. They also state that the metal cable is subject to corrosion must be replaced.

I'm pretty sure that the old cable your are talking about was only listed for dry locations.

 

[electricalperson]

if its BX i would replace it. i had to do a job that had major water damage and i replaced all the BX. job cost so far 2500 dollars. there wasnt much BX

 

[tedge]

Thanks to Zog for the NEMA brochure link. As Growler says it is the exact thing I was looking for.

I can tell the insurance company it needs to be replaced, but in the end, unless there's some precedent or recommendation by someone like NEMA to fall back on, I don't have a whole lot of footing.

 

[zog]

you are welcom, glad to help.