Water Heater Arcing

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My guess is mineral deposits are sitting in the bottom of the tank so that the element is not in water. This will make it burn up
 
Dennis Alwon said:
My guess is mineral deposits are sitting in the bottom of the tank so that the element is not in water. This will make it burn up
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OP hints at the water heater being newish. But Never thought about that way. It would get really hot possibly burning up the terminals.
 
The High Limit on the lower oprating control should open the circuit before it reaches an " overheat " state. Element shorts will also generally cause a trip. We have to assume that the factory wiring has not been compromised in any way such that this would not happen when it is supposed to, as in wired incorrectly or defeated. I have not seen a failure quite like this one.
 
StarCat said:
The High Limit on the lower oprating control should open the circuit before it reaches an " overheat " state. Element shorts will also generally cause a trip. We have to assume that the factory wiring has not been compromised in any way such that this would not happen when it is supposed to, as in wired incorrectly or defeated. I have not seen a failure quite like this one.
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The high limit monitors water temp only (tank wall temperature), it would not detect direct terminal or element temperature. Short to ground, yes, eventually as the tank would continue to heat.
 
Looks like whoever is installing it isn’t terminating the wire properly. It’s arching like a bad connection.
Don’t know why they would be on the bottom though..
Cheap thermostats will burn out and arc like that sometimes, but usually the breaker trips.
 
Hv&Lv said:
Looks like whoever is installing it isn’t terminating the wire properly. It’s arching like a bad connection.
Don’t know why they would be on the bottom though..
Cheap thermostats will burn out and arc like that sometimes, but usually the breaker trips.
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If it is a new heater being installed, no one should have to mess with the wiring on the lower element or thermostat as they are factory wired. It looks like it may have either been left loose at the factory or possibly the cover was touching the terminals and no EGC connected or not connected properly.
Being the OP said his old heater also had this problem makes me think the EGC was not connected on either the old or new tank.
 
Little Bill said:
If it is a new heater being installed, no one should have to mess with the wiring on the lower element or thermostat as they are factory wired. It looks like it may have either been left loose at the factory or possibly the cover was touching the terminals and no EGC connected or not connected properly.
Being the OP said his old heater also had this problem makes me think the EGC was not connected on either the old or new tank.
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Agreed. But with this one being new I’m leaning toward EGC not connected with a combination of bad thermostat shorting out
 
my guess is that if its an electrical water heater then there's probably a hair line fracture in the heating element and its arcing. Although they've gone through 2 ? maybe its a 120 element being subjected to 240. Just a guess.
 
You have to trust your instincts.

When I was young and naive I worked for a fuel oil company this was 40 years ago. We were low bidder on a job I estimated on a 20,000 gallon underground oil tank install for one of the largest hand gun manufacturers in the area (I won't name them but it was in Western MA). The job was worth 100k, peanuts now but it was a big job to us 40 years ago. Now, my boss who owned our company was pretty sharp. He had been selling this company fuel oil for over 30 years at that time and between the huge heating plant and the forge running it was big $$$$

So we get the job and I am dealing with the assissant purchasing agent. He called me gave us the job and I asked about the PO. he said it would take a week but"order the tank". My boss told me no way, get the po and then order the tank.

This went on for three weeks me calling and asking where the po is and him asking if the tank is on order and saying the po is on the way.

I'm of course keeping my boss in the loop being scared this deal will blow up and we will lose the oil account and I will get fired. But my boss stuck to his guns and backed me up. We never got the PO and they gave the job to another contractor. We still had the oil account.

My boss always said if they don't do what they are suppose to do "somethings wrong" get out of the deal it will only get worse

A year later the PA was fired. Guy that ran the boiler room said he was taking kickbacks. I guess I was supposed to ask him "hey, whiat will it take to get the PO. You can't trust anyone, business is business
 
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Eddie702 said:
You have to trust your instincts.

When I was young and naive I worked for a fuel oil company this was 40 years ago. We were low bidder on a job I estimated on a 20,000 gallon underground oil tank install for one of the largest hand gun manufacturers in the area (I won't name them but it was in Western MA). The job was worth 100k, peanuts now but it was a big job to us 40 years ago. Now, my boss who owned our company was pretty sharp. He had been selling this company fuel oil for over 30 years at that time and between the huge heating plant and the forge running it was big $$$$

So we get the job and I am dealing with the assissant purchasing agent. He called me gave us the job and I asked about the PO. he said it would take a week but"order the tank". My boss told me no way, get the po and then order the tank.

This went on for three weeks me calling and asking where the po is and him asking if the tank is on order and saying the po is on the way.

I'm of course keeping my boss in the loop being scared this deal will blow up and we will lose the oil account and I will get fired. But my boss stuck to his guns and backed me up. We never got the PO and they gave the job to another contractor. We still had the oil account.

My boss always said if they don't do what they are suppose to do "somethings wrong" get out of the deal it will only get worse

A year later the PA was fired. Guy that ran the boiler room said he was taking kickbacks. I guess I was supposed to ask him "hey, whiat will it take to get the PO. You can't trust anyone, business is business
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I'm thinking you posted this in the wrong thread. If so, PM me and I will move it.
 
hillbilly1 said:
The high limit monitors water temp only (tank wall temperature), it would not detect direct terminal or element temperature. Short to ground, yes, eventually as the tank would continue to heat.
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They have always been tripped in this case in my experience SHORT TO GROUND. This is whay I stated it.
 
The OP goes on to state
"..so just to follow up the best I can without pictures, it turns out that all of the wires were in fact screwed tightly into these four little mounting plates that went into the heater (one for each wire, and I don't know how to better describe it) but one of these mounting plates just came off with the wire and screw still tightly attached to it and this screw doesn't go back into the hole anymore (the hole is too big now)."

Over torqued at the factory or by the installer, the user PillarOrPike summed it up best in that thread:
"I hate to say it but 110.14 (D) might be a good thing."
 
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