Water Heater Disconnect?

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The Iceman

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No study breaks for The Iceman. I have many more questions. I have always installed a disconnect for water heaters in a dwelling unit, but cannot find any article in the 2005 NEC that says I need one. 422.31 (A) says the branch-circuit overcurrent device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means. Am I missing something?
 
The Iceman said:
No study breaks for The Iceman. I have many more questions. I have always installed a disconnect for water heaters in a dwelling unit, but cannot find any article in the 2005 NEC that says I need one. 422.31 (A) says the branch-circuit overcurrent device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Yeah, 422.31(B).:smile:
 
The Iceman said:
No study breaks for The Iceman. I have many more questions. I have always installed a disconnect for water heaters in a dwelling unit, but cannot find any article in the 2005 NEC that says I need one. 422.31 (A) says the branch-circuit overcurrent device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

As Chris pointed out you are allowed to use a lock out on the breaker, instead of a disco..
Some areas may have a local ordinance requiring disconnects at the water heater.
Such as a vacation area. Where the tennant (owners) may want to turn it off and on often. Some summer retreats drain all the water out of the house during the real cold months.
A lock out on the breaker might be easier. But some non electricians get confused looking at breakers in a panel. Or in fairness. It might be labled wrong.
 
For vacation homes, where the water heater gets drained for close up of the place, a disco (a $20 dollar NEMA1 cheapy is perfect) right next to the unit is perfect. Owners need to pull the Disco when they close up so that the water heater elements don't get fried when they turn on the main to open the place back up. Don't know how many places come in, turn on the main - and poof dry element gets fried while every thing is being turned on, and unpacked :( .

Maybe it's just something that only happens in Alaska...

Edit added - I see Buck is a faster typist!
 
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With a non fused pull out disco costing $10.00 why bother with a breaker lock. I guess there are times when it may be beneficial to use the lock but I doubt it would ever get used. Since I am the one usually having to service a water heater I am happy with the disco right next to me.
 
The Iceman said:
No study breaks for The Iceman. I have many more questions. I have always installed a disconnect for water heaters in a dwelling unit, but cannot find any article in the 2005 NEC that says I need one. 422.31 (A) says the branch-circuit overcurrent device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Hey Chuck Lidell? Why are you now interested in becoming an electrician? Are you getting ready to retire from the UFC? :)
 
By the time I install it a 100 miles from town, and tell you how to save future grief, you'll thank me for only $20 on that item. It's the sizzle, that makes the sale! Lot's of people do their own cabin wiring back home, so if it's a service call for a water heater, turn it into a walk around inspection while on the premises if you can.

What's an extra $50 to someone, when you can save them from some very dangerous situations recognized by an electrician, but not the HO? Forget the cost of the cabin, if their life is saved from disaster while they are asleep, then you my friend, are priceless.
 
Rockyd said:
By the time I install it a 100 miles from town, and tell you how to save future grief, you'll thank me for only $20 on that item. It's the sizzle, that makes the sale! Lot's of people do their own cabin wiring back home, so if it's a service call for a water heater, turn it into a walk around inspection while on the premises if you can.

What's an extra $50 to someone, when you can save them from some very dangerous situations recognized by an electrician, but not the HO? Forget the cost of the cabin, if their life is saved from disaster while they are asleep, then you my friend, are priceless.
Click to expand...
I'm officially confused now. I don't think I'm understanding what you mean.
 
Most common place for this service call in my area is normally about a 100 miles from town (Anchorage to someplace on the Kenai). If you make the drive with the $7 disco, and install it, the mark up, and the drive are costly to the client. When you are doing the install of the disco(normally because they fried the element in the water heater) look around and see if their wiring is MacGyvered in (looks like a Friday spot the violations shot).

If so, offer to do a walk around. Lots of times they think they know how to do electrical work but in reality, they made a health hazard. For a couple of more nickels, to get an electrician to do a walk around, and offer to extend a service call (because you're already there) to either fix the existing problems, or to submit a proposal to fix the stuff in conjunction with more than one service call in the area.

In Alaska, out of town normally means no electrical inspections are done (we have two to cover the whole state, it's up to each town to do their own inspection program, if they even have one), so you will probably be the only person with electrical expertise to see their work. Sometimes it's pretty scary what people, who don't know what they are doing, will pass off as a good job.

Edit - is this clear as mud now:)?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
With a non fused pull out disco costing $10.00 why bother with a breaker lock. I guess there are times when it may be beneficial to use the lock but I doubt it would ever get used. Since I am the one usually having to service a water heater I am happy with the disco right next to me.
Click to expand...
I can snap that breaker lock in under a minute, no tools,cost maybe $4. How fast will your disco go up ?
 
220/221 said:
Does a standard 2 pole mechanical timer with an on/off switch qualify as a means of disconnect?
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Nope....

(B) Appliances Rated Over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1⁄8
Horsepower. For permanently connected appliances rated
over 300 volt-amperes or 1⁄8 hp, the branch-circuit switch or
circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting
means where the switch or circuit breaker is within
sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the
open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to
the disconnecting means shall be installed on or at the
switch or circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means
and shall remain in place with or without the lock installed.
 
Rockyd said:
Most common place for this service call in my area is normally about a 100 miles from town (Anchorage to someplace on the Kenai). If you make the drive with the $7 disco, and install it, the mark up, and the drive are costly to the client. When you are doing the install of the disco(normally because they fried the element in the water heater) look around and see if their wiring is MacGyvered in (looks like a Friday spot the violations shot).

If so, offer to do a walk around. Lots of times they think they know how to do electrical work but in reality, they made a health hazard. For a couple of more nickels, to get an electrician to do a walk around, and offer to extend a service call (because you're already there) to either fix the existing problems, or to submit a proposal to fix the stuff in conjunction with more than one service call in the area.

In Alaska, out of town normally means no electrical inspections are done (we have two to cover the whole state, it's up to each town to do their own inspection program, if they even have one), so you will probably be the only person with electrical expertise to see their work. Sometimes it's pretty scary what people, who don't know what they are doing, will pass off as a good job.

Edit - is this clear as mud now:)?
Click to expand...
gotcha now. But I still don't see why you would need a disco when a breaker lock off works just as well.
 
radiopet said:
Nope....

(B) Appliances Rated Over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1⁄8
Horsepower. For permanently connected appliances rated
over 300 volt-amperes or 1⁄8 hp, the branch-circuit switch or
circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting
means where the switch or circuit breaker is within
sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the
open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to
the disconnecting means shall be installed on or at the
switch or circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means
and shall remain in place with or without the lock installed.
Click to expand...
How does your quote from the code say that the timer switch with the on off switch doesn't pass as a disconnecting means?
 
Either, or, will work. Anything to keep the HO aware that they are going to have a serious problem if they energize a dry tank.
 
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