Water heater power vent - GFI??

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sundowner

sundowner

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Location
West Wisconsin
So I spent yesterday removing and installing a new water heater in my basement - existing recep for the cord and plug power vent is a single recep on a 15 amp breaker. I have no problem changing that out to a GFI - but my question is do I have to, - does the exception in 210.8(A)5. (exception 2) say I'm not required to install one?? -

Probably been asked a million times...

Thanks guys!
 
The latest NEC on my computer is the '08, so I only see one exception. However, code aside, I'd say that the need to keep the ventilation power on to prevent asphyxiation outweighs the single-receptacle shock risk.
 
sundowner said:
So I spent yesterday removing and installing a new water heater in my basement - existing recep for the cord and plug power vent is a single recep on a 15 amp breaker. I have no problem changing that out to a GFI - but my question is do I have to, - does the exception in 210.8(A)5. (exception 2) say I'm not required to install one?? -

Probably been asked a million times...

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

What code cycle are you referencing? GFCI protection is now required.
 
sundowner said:
So I spent yesterday removing and installing a new water heater in my basement - existing recep for the cord and plug power vent is a single recep on a 15 amp breaker. I have no problem changing that out to a GFI - but my question is do I have to, - does the exception in 210.8(A)5. (exception 2) say I'm not required to install one?? -

Probably been asked a million times...

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

Just put it on GFCI and forget it- it'll work fine.

You say you're worried about CO2 poisoning due to the vent shutting down.....
So when a storm blasts thru and knocks out the power, everybody that has one of these units dies??:happyno:

Also, can you quote this exception for us? I can't find it in 210.8(A).:)
 
I'm pretty sure that those heaters will not fire if the unit is de-energized.
 
LarryFine said:
The latest NEC on my computer is the '08, so I only see one exception. However, code aside, I'd say that the need to keep the ventilation power on to prevent asphyxiation outweighs the single-receptacle shock risk.
Click to expand...
I believe OP has a unit with a draft inducer blower. If pressure from blower isn't proven, fuel and ignition signals are never given by the controls of such units.

Besides fuel and ignition are supplied by same circuit so if GFCI trips you get nothing from the water heater but whatever heat is present in the tank.
 
complexity always adds to the probability of having issues. if you dont need gfi then dont use it. wiring done correctly will be very safe.
 
FionaZuppa said:
complexity always adds to the probability of having issues. if you dont need gfi then dont use it. wiring done correctly will be very safe.
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Water heater doesn't need a GFCI. The issue is that a 5-15 receptacle in an unfinished basement requires GFCI protection - no exceptions since 2005 I believe. Every gas water heater I have ever seen (at least residential type under 100 gallons) with draft inducer blower comes with a cord and cap from the factory.
 
Thanks guys - that is correct - the power vent unit is interlocked with the gas valve - no power means no gas/ burner operation.

My question was really a clarification of that exception - I am looking in a 2005 NEC - the only one I have at home at the moment - it is the 2nd exception - my understanding of it was that if there is a recep feeding an appliance - (a single recep) dedicated only to that appliance - not readily accessible - it wasn't required to be GFI protected.

I looked in my '08 handbook and it says that exception has been eliminated - I looked up my own answer - Thanks guys!!
 
sundowner said:
Thanks guys - that is correct - the power vent unit is interlocked with the gas valve - no power means no gas/ burner operation.

My question was really a clarification of that exception - I am looking in a 2005 NEC - the only one I have at home at the moment - it is the 2nd exception - my understanding of it was that if there is a recep feeding an appliance - (a single recep) dedicated only to that appliance - not readily accessible - it wasn't required to be GFI protected.

I looked in my '08 handbook and it says that exception has been eliminated - I looked up my own answer - Thanks guys!![/QUOTE]

Yep, all exceptions have been eliminated for some time now.

Back when we could still put in a single recep for a specific appliance and not GFCI protect it - I used to run into power strips, triple taps, etc. plugged into those outlets - users find that one doesn't trip and defeat the whole concept of single outlet for a dedicated purpose.

Also had a couple occasions where we didn't GFCI for a refrigerator/freezer in a basement or garage - only to find people getting shocked from an appliance with a problem. Often was either old freezer that only had a two wire cord or one that was missing EGC pin. If missing/compromised EGC on cord and plug connected equipment weren't so much of a problem GFCI wouldn't be as necessary as it is for some locations.
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kwired said:
Water heater doesn't need a GFCI. The issue is that a 5-15 receptacle in an unfinished basement requires GFCI protection - no exceptions since 2005 I believe. Every gas water heater I have ever seen (at least residential type under 100 gallons) with draft inducer blower comes with a cord and cap from the factory.
Click to expand...

generally the exceptions are the same as garage exceptions.

dedicated single recept for equip not easily moveable, no gfi needed.
 
sundowner said:
So I spent yesterday removing and installing a new water heater in my basement - existing recep for the cord and plug power vent is a single recep on a 15 amp breaker. I have no problem changing that out to a GFI - but my question is do I have to, - does the exception in 210.8(A)5. (exception 2) say I'm not required to install one?? -

Probably been asked a million times...

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

Sorry OP.......:slaphead:

I didn't quote my earlier post correctly and this part of the post was meant as a response to another members concern about asphyxiation in post #2.....
VVVVVVV
user 100 said:
You say you're worried about CO2 poisoning due to the vent shutting down....
Click to expand...

kwired said:
I believe OP has a unit with a draft inducer blower. If pressure from blower isn't proven, fuel and ignition signals are never given by the controls of such units.

Besides fuel and ignition are supplied by same circuit so if GFCI trips you get nothing from the water heater but whatever heat is present in the tank.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

FionaZuppa said:
generally the exceptions are the same as garage exceptions.

dedicated single recept for equip not easily moveable, no gfi needed.
Click to expand...

As said above the single rec exceptions are gone- only allowed if AHJ is pre 2008/AHJ has an amendment to post 2005.:)
 
I am having a gas tankless water heater installed. The unit requires 120V for controls/ignition/venting.

The instructions specifically permit either a cord and plug connection or a hard wire connection.

The initial install will be cord and plug with a GFCI; if this proves to be a problem then it will be changed to hard wire without a GFCI.

You may want to check the manual for your water heater. You may be able to hard wire.

-Jon
 
winnie said:
I am having a gas tankless water heater installed. The unit requires 120V for controls/ignition/venting.

The instructions specifically permit either a cord and plug connection or a hard wire connection.

The initial install will be cord and plug with a GFCI; if this proves to be a problem then it will be changed to hard wire without a GFCI.

You may want to check the manual for your water heater. You may be able to hard wire.

-Jon
Click to expand...

You could definitely do that and be kosher if allowed by manufacturer.

210.8 only mentions receptacles, not outlets for a HWD connection.
 
sundowner said:
So I spent yesterday removing and installing a new water heater in my basement - existing recep for the cord and plug power vent is a single recep on a 15 amp breaker. I have no problem changing that out to a GFI - but my question is do I have to, - does the exception in 210.8(A)5. (exception 2) say I'm not required to install one?? -

Probably been asked a million times...

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

To me, it is existing, so no need to change out. Grandfathered!
 
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