Weather proof box
- Thread starter Dbronx
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I would sure hope so, many of those type boxes even have places that can be punched out for mounting through the back.
I agree with you 100% but wonder if you have ever been able to "punch" one of those spots. I always ended up drilling.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
I've encountered private-party inspections where it was questioned whether punching a hole in the back defeated the rating of the box. When that happens, they're usually happy if you use gasketed screws.
Fact is, the "NEMA-4" designation indicates the enclosure - read carefully now - will not allow objectionable amounts of water to enter when the water is directed at the box in a stream from any and every angle. The box is mounted 'normally' for the test. Yes, such boxes usually have gaskets, but that's not a requirement of the standard. Having the gasket installed MIGHT be necessary for a specific enclosure to pass the test, but it's not required that everything be gasketed.
I would state point-blank that you will pass the test even if your screws passing through the back of the box are not gasketed. Considering the minor clearance between the box and the wall, and the labyrinthine route water must take to reach the joint between the screw head and the box, I don't see how you could fail even using the most restrictive definition of 'objectionable.' The boxes are not intended to be submerged; that would be NEMA-6, not NEMA-4.
Fact is, the "NEMA-4" designation indicates the enclosure - read carefully now - will not allow objectionable amounts of water to enter when the water is directed at the box in a stream from any and every angle. The box is mounted 'normally' for the test. Yes, such boxes usually have gaskets, but that's not a requirement of the standard. Having the gasket installed MIGHT be necessary for a specific enclosure to pass the test, but it's not required that everything be gasketed.
I would state point-blank that you will pass the test even if your screws passing through the back of the box are not gasketed. Considering the minor clearance between the box and the wall, and the labyrinthine route water must take to reach the joint between the screw head and the box, I don't see how you could fail even using the most restrictive definition of 'objectionable.' The boxes are not intended to be submerged; that would be NEMA-6, not NEMA-4.
They can be mounted as you described but some inspectors do not like that. They claim the by making holes through the back you have violated the UL listing.
I always mount these boxes as you have described and run caulking around the sides.
I always mount these boxes as you have described and run caulking around the sides.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
I agree with you 100% but wonder if you have ever been able to "punch" one of those spots. I always ended up drilling.
From my experience, there are indentations, but you ain't punching them out!:happyno:
Soooooo...I'm agreeing with Augie!
But, I think the OP is talking about a PVC box with the 4 mounting tabs, one on each corner, for mounting.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I agree with you 100% but wonder if you have ever been able to "punch" one of those spots. I always ended up drilling.
My best success with most of them has been a center punch and hammer, not a linesman pliers, it just doesn't have enough mass to get the job done, and strike it fairly hard, not full swing hard, but pretty hard.
If you use a screwdriver, or other tools you usually will have difficulty. If you did not strike hard enough center punch leaves a point for trying again, a screw driver just slips and sometimes messes up the nib making it hard to position for a second try.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
I easily punch through the 'KO's" using a drift pin and my linesmans' as a hammer. I'll usually support the area around the KO by setting the box atop a fitting.
Caulking around the box, IMO, is a technical violation, as the NEC required a small space between the enclosure and the wall. That's why the boxes have those little tabs at the corners.
Otherwise ... I'm weqary of all this chicken-little BS about "might void the listing." That's pure poppycock, tossed about by ignorant jackalopes who want to pudh others around. Might? How about 'might not?' From here on - either the critic provides a specific letter from UL saying "Doing "X" to product "Y" will void our listing," they can go bark at the moon. No more inferring, guessing, playing it safe, etc. I will nol longer tolerate government by overactive imagination and supposition. They want to document their fears, let THEM do it.
Caulking around the box, IMO, is a technical violation, as the NEC required a small space between the enclosure and the wall. That's why the boxes have those little tabs at the corners.
Otherwise ... I'm weqary of all this chicken-little BS about "might void the listing." That's pure poppycock, tossed about by ignorant jackalopes who want to pudh others around. Might? How about 'might not?' From here on - either the critic provides a specific letter from UL saying "Doing "X" to product "Y" will void our listing," they can go bark at the moon. No more inferring, guessing, playing it safe, etc. I will nol longer tolerate government by overactive imagination and supposition. They want to document their fears, let THEM do it.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Thought those were one in the same tool
Ok they often are, but the linesman pliers is only a 8-10 oz hammer instead of a 16-18 oz hammer.
mjf
Senior Member
On the outdoor metal box topic......
On the outdoor metal box topic......
Why don't the manufacturers move the bond screw just a hair further from the box sidewall so that I can wrap #12 around it without completely removing the screw first????
On the outdoor metal box topic......
Why don't the manufacturers move the bond screw just a hair further from the box sidewall so that I can wrap #12 around it without completely removing the screw first????
JDB3
Senior Member
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
worked with a guy, that his only tools were linesman pliers & a screw driver. OK, yes that was back in the 70's !!
fmtjfw
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairmont, WV, USA
Isn't it better to caulk and stop water from getting behind the box?
Besides, the bottom of the box is not caulked so even after caulking is there is any condensation on the back (between the box and the mounted surface) then it will run off at the bottom.
For future reference, besides the NEC 1/4" space requirement where is it stated that the caulking is violation?
Thanks
mbednarik
Member
- Location
- central iowa
- Occupation
- Electrician
I almost never use those tin mounting tabs with the bell boxes. I punch the 2 hole out of the back, mount the box with 2 panhead screws. Caulk the top and the 2 sides, leaving the bottom open for drainage. I also drill 2 1/8" holes in the bottom. I have seen too many of these boxes half full of water.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
I use the big hole in the back of the box, a long enough screw, and a fender washer; no beating on the box or flimsy mounting straps needed.
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
I stopped using the bell boxes. I now only install plastic FS boxes. Florida sea coast is ruff on the bell boxes.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Understandable, but if plastic boxes are used in many of the installations I often get involved in they seem to get broken easily or don't necessarily stand up to sunlight all that well. Of course if severe physical abuse is imminent, the aluminum bell box doesn't have much chance either, I guess that is what steel cast boxes are for.
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