Welding Cable as generator cable?

KasseemF

Member
I have a contractor that would like to use a "Carolprene 4/0GA Welding Cable" to connect a 100kW generator to an ATS to provide a backup supply for a commercial building.

Does the NEC say anything about the use of welding cable to permanent/ temporary wiring? is this permitted?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
400.4 Types. Flexible cords and flexible cables shall conform
to the description in Table 400.4. Types of flexible
cords and flexible cables other than those listed in the table
shall be the subject of special investigation
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
I must point out that should you find an acceptable fne stranded the common terminations are UL486 listed for class 'B' and 'C' stranding which are 7, 19, 37, and 61 strands.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Unless this welding cable is dual listed as a conductor type found in article 400 it cannot be used for any NEC power installation.
The only dual listed welding cable that I have seen was listed as a type found in Article 310, not 400...it was listed RHH/RHW.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
And if it is dual listed you still have to find terminals that are listed for fine stranded wire. They exist but are not easy to buy off the shelf.
If you can get crimp type terminals that are listed for the cable and then bolt the connections to the device as a suggestion.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
And if it is dual listed you still have to find terminals that are listed for fine stranded wire. They exist but are not easy to buy off the shelf.
If you can get crimp type terminals that are listed for the cable and then bolt the connections to the device as a suggestion.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
I looked up Carolprene welding cable, and could not find a listing as to what type of cable it is. If you can find this, imo then you can proceed with the "is it NEC compliant?" question.
 

boptrop

Member
Location
WV, VA
I have applied solder to fine strand cable and terminated it in a mechanical lug and walked away feeling that there would never be a issue. The cable is in service today....4/0 fine strand with about 150-200A on it. No issue no problem.

Im sure the code vultures will have issues though LOL
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I have applied solder to fine strand cable and terminated it in a mechanical lug and walked away feeling that there would never be a issue. The cable is in service today....4/0 fine strand with about 150-200A on it. No issue no problem.

Im sure the code vultures will have issues though LOL
Code vultures?:D

This is a code website and the OP asked about the code. What a surprise code issues where discussed.

Consider this about your above installation. What would it have cost you if the inspector legitimately failed your terminations?
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Excellent suggestion. I have done that in the past and think it is probably the best way.
Thanks, I had two customers, an overhead crane manudacturer and a drive manufacturer who both liked to use hypalon fine stranded wire because of its ease of use in a panel. One fried the load end of a 250a breaker due to a failed termination where the heating asnd cooling cycle of the compromised termination caused it to continue to fail eventually ended up into an arcing failure. The arc ionized the air and involved the grounded back pan which then involved the adjacent phase. Not a pretty picture.
I illustrated to both customers that even after torquing the terminal correctly you can never compress the internal strands adequately and when you look at the end of the wire while in the termination the strads toward the center squirm around..
The common terminal is UL486 listed for use with class B and C stranding and advised them to use a suitable compression lug to terminate the cable such as a ring tongue terminal, remove the terminal from the device and bolt the ring tongue terminal to the device preferably with stainless steel, nonmagnetic fasteners. You don't want to overlook that high current flowing through a fastener can cause heating if common fasteners are used.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
I always used Art. 400 Type W for temp/generator cable. Used to buy a ton of it in 2/0 and 4/0 for this.
Yes, that is a cable that is covered by Article 400, but my comment was about dual listed "welding" cable. Type W power cable is not welding cable.
 

KasseemF

Member
I understand this would be a code violation but what are the possible dangers in using this welding cable with the generator?

Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
I understand this would be a code violation but what are the possible dangers in using this welding cable with the generator?

Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk
Assuming that the insulation has the correct voltage rating and you use terminations suitable for the fine strands, I don't see any real danger....just a code violation.
 
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