Wet Romex

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jshaw

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I would like to solicit some opinions from this incredibly wise and diverse group of professionals. I am an inspector in Idaho where the winters are ugly. I know, I know, not as bad as Minnesota, Michigan, Illinois etc.... I have a few contractors who are complaining that they want the houses dried in before they put in the electrical. They want the building department to require it so that the romex doesn't get water damage from snow blowing through the house and water leaking in the roof.

What do you guys think about the seriousness of water getting in the open boxes on the wire and the paper insulation getting wet inside the romex sheath?

If you were to see alot of this in a rough in, would you require the romex with the wet insulation paper be removed and replaced?

Thanks in advance for all your ideas.
 
From a cost POV, it would be cheaper for the EC to do his work w/o mother nature dripping down their backs.

I won't start a home w/o at least the shingles up and windows in....and hopefully a door :)
 
The romex is only part of the issue. Water on the staples and the box nails will start to rust right away. Granted it will be some years before it becomes a problem once it starts rusting, but problem will come someday.
 
Our Building Department requires the buildings to be "dryed in" prior to roughing in systems, period. Drying in electrical systems makes a heck of a lot of sense. :smile:
 
I'm not really arguing the point, but I will play devil avdocate for a minute.

People on this site are always getting upset that inspectors are calling things that they can't enforce. There is nothing in the code that requires a house to be dried in prior to electrical or plumbing and mechanical being installed. That being said (and sorry we don't really have a weather problem here, got five inches of rain here a over a two week period last month and we're almost above the yearly average) you could require it by local ordinance.

I do know that there are plenty of electricans running around with boxes of Romex in the back of their trucks getting rained all over. I would think that between rough and final it would have plenty of time to dry out.
 
Our state (WA) electrical code requires the building to have its sheathing completed before it can be roped. If it gets wet the inspector has the ability to require the NM cable to be replaced. The sheathing has to be installed so the NM is not damaged by nails.
 
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On tract work I imagine it would be pretty easy to arrange scheduling so that the building is weather tight before wiring. Custom home projects can be a little different. Many times we are on the job as scheduled but maybe the custom window order was held up for some reason or the roofer couldn't make bail :grin: . The GC or OB is trying to get a bank draw and we can't pull off and reschedule either. So we get wet (and dry off), and our wiring system gets wet (and dries out), and we all get over it. I know that anecdotal evidence is not worth much in court but in 35 years of doing this I can't think of a single instance of wet romex being blamed for a failure.

We also do flood (frozen, broken water pipes) work and are never asked by the insurance companies or local inspectors to replace romex that has been saturated. We replace all devices and loght fixtures in the affected areas and call it a day.
 
tom baker said:
Our state (WA) electrical code requires the building to have its sheathing completed before it can be roped. If it gets wet the inspector has the ability to require the NM cable to be replaced. The sheathing has to be installed so the NM is not damaged by nails.
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How are they fastening the sheathing? With properly installed NM installing the sheathing shouldn't cause any damage to the NM. I do think it is a good requirement, though. When it is 10 - 12 degrees with a bit of wind, it is not any fun installing anything.
 
dlhoule said:
How are they fastening the sheathing? With properly installed NM installing the sheathing shouldn't cause any damage to the NM. I do think it is a good requirement, though. When it is 10 - 12 degrees with a bit of wind, it is not any fun installing anything.
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the key word there is "shouldn't". if they are using 3 or 3 1/2" nails and missing the studs blasting them thru the wall what they "shouldn't" be doing becomes somebody's nightmare.
 
nakulak said:
the key word there is "shouldn't". if they are using 3 or 3 1/2" nails and missing the studs blasting them thru the wall what they "shouldn't" be doing becomes somebody's nightmare.
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I thought the keyword was "properly" :grin:

Either way...if they think they are reenacting a shoot out at the "OK Coral" there's gonna be trouble.
 
Thanks for all the ideas. Sometimes it really helps to throw something out there and get different perspectives on a subject. I agree 100% that this is not enforceable as an NEC violation. Before I suggested to the building department that we make it a local ordinance I wanted to know the opinions of many in the field as to how big of a issue this really is.

I appreciate your pointing out that, really, when has wet paper insulation in the romex ever caused any kind of failure.

Bottom line, I don't think I will suggest this be considered as a local ordinance, but if asked by a contractor or homeowner if we require it, I will probably recommend that it would be a good idea.

Thanks again for your help.
 
dlhoule said:
How are they fastening the sheathing? With properly installed NM installing the sheathing shouldn't cause any damage to the NM. I do think it is a good requirement, though. When it is 10 - 12 degrees with a bit of wind, it is not any fun installing anything.
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1/2 inch sheathing fastened with 8d nails (2 1/2 inch long) could easily miss a stud.
 
I would tag it as damaged wire.Water stays forever in romex and it damages the ground wire.Also your asking for problems with gfci and afci.Up to the inspector but if i am buying this house you will rip it out.Take a 20 foot piece of romex and stick it in bucket of water for few hours,then let it dry in the shade for a few weeks and slice it open and take a look
 
Special K said:
IF water damages the ground wire then why are the ground rods copper coated?
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OK try this idea,romex is simply not listed for wet location.This is a wet location even if only for few days.Why is it not listed for wet if it damages nothing ? Take a look at that tarnished ground wire and tell be if you want it in your house.Your giving the customer damaged wire.
 
Jim,
This is a wet location even if only for few days.
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Per the code its not!
Location, Dry. A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under construction.
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Don
 
Is not the same wire used in uf cable except for the sheathing. In high humidity climates does not the humidity infiltrate into the enclosures etc. IF the wire is damaged by moisture why doesn't the insurance companies cover it in there claims. All your outside enclosures are the enclosures weathertight or weatherproof. It is always better to make fresh starts if somebody else is paying for it.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I would tag it as damaged wire.Water stays forever in romex and it damages the ground wire.Also your asking for problems with gfci and afci.Up to the inspector but if i am buying this house you will rip it out.Take a 20 foot piece of romex and stick it in bucket of water for few hours,then let it dry in the shade for a few weeks and slice it open and take a look
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You don't think that down there in humidityville that the wiring gets damp from time to time?

This is just a bunch of nonsense.
 
electricmanscott said:
You don't think that down there in humidityville that the wiring gets damp from time to time?

This is just a bunch of nonsense.
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I know it happens but why should it ?I have seen it get wet and months later it still is.This is a ahj type issue.Do you want your panel wet too ?
 
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