What a mess

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Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Retired Electrical Contractor
As many of you know I am working in this very elaborate house. Information comes slowly and causing issues because the builders are putting the cart before the horse.

Anyway they decided to do this dense pack cellulose on the ceiling - we got the ceilings inspected- but now I find out that some of the lights require a 4 wire cable to the light. These are Bega L5443 pendants LED with an intergral dimmer 0-10V. Apparently I need a neutral, switched hot and then the 0-10v conductors. These all go to a GRX-TVI Interface by Lutron.

Okay I have never had to do this before so what type cable is run-- 2 separate cables or a special cable. I know Lutron had us use a cable that had 2- #12 conductors and then 2 smaller conductors for the graphic eye switches we used years ago but I am not sure that is what is needed here. Seems odd to run 2 cables- doesn't feel right.

Any help
 
As always, take my comment with a grain of salt :D, but I, along with some engineers, had our heads in the book for a while over this and in the end I want to say one of the key NEC areas is 725.136(D).
 
Whether you can run one cable or not will depend on whether the interface (control panel and fixture) require Class 2 limited power or can optionally be wired as Class 1. If you can use Class 1, then you can mix the control and power in one raceway or cable as long as you use suitably insulated wiring for the controls.
 
If bega-US is going to design & sell these fixtures then IMHO they should supply you with the right cable. Could you use 4 conductor Romex ? black, white, red, white w/red tracer, ground
 
John120/240 said:
If bega-US is going to design & sell these fixtures then IMHO they should supply you with the right cable. Could you use 4 conductor Romex ? black, white, red, white w/red tracer, ground
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Probably but of course no one has that. I was thinking that it is class 1 and can be mixed as Gus and Golddigger were getting at. What a bunch of junk--- this entire job has been like this. The info comes in after we are done and we end up ripping it out. Not my problem as the builders and owners are pushing this inspite of my warnings.
 
So if 725 is the issue then what do you do when it gets to the fixture-- there is no separation between the wires. I have to assume a single cable will work or some Belden cable with 2 smaller control wires and the larger lighting circuit
 
Have you contacted the manufacturer? It would seem that they should be able to recommend the correct cable for wiring their UL-listed lamps.
 
Jon456 said:
Have you contacted the manufacturer? It would seem that they should be able to recommend the correct cable for wiring their UL-listed lamps.
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Not yet, I just found out so I haven't been able to call-- I figured someone here might know.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
So if 725 is the issue then what do you do when it gets to the fixture-- there is no separation between the wires. I have to assume a single cable will work or some Belden cable with 2 smaller control wires and the larger lighting circuit
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725 allows them in the same enclosure without a barrier as long as you maintain spacing.
 
iwire said:
725 allows them in the same enclosure without a barrier as long as you maintain spacing.
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How do I do that with a canopy? Seems odd especially since the wires appear to come directly out of the ballast.

Lutron told me that their interface is a class 2 so it seems I can run some class 2 wiring and some nm cable for the high voltage end.
 
Dennis, I'm trying my best to recall the results of my encounter. As I recall the Lutron controller instructions noted that it could be used as a Class 1 or Class 2 circuit.
You could follow 725.130, and reclassify the circuitry as Class 1 and share raceways, cables and enclosures with power and lighting but then your wiring method would have to be one covered by Chapter 3.
The second option is to leave them as Class 2 circuits and follow 725.136 where, I believe, they can share the same cable as long as you follow 725.136(D).
 
Unfortunately I do not have the fixture so I am assuming alot here. Unfortunately I cannot speak directly to anyone from Bega lighting so I sent an email-- we'll see if they respond.

At this point I am ready to pull a 14/4 and a class 2 cable.... At least I am covered but that is a PITA. According to Lutron they say they usually expect a class 2 wire and a separate power cable to their interface so that seems like the right way to go.

I am really curious how important this whole issue is about mixing this class 2 with power etc. Many Lutron switches are designed this way-- basically a bell wire for the control and then power to their switch.
 
Thanks Gus--So what does that mean that the controller can be class 1 or 2. Is that really just dependent on what wires I run? I really wish I understood what this class stuff really means or how it is determined. I have never gotten a good answer.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Here is the pdf for instructions http://www.bega-us.com/downloads/99L5443.pdf
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The pendant cord has 4 wires & ground? Must be classified as a class 1 luminaire -- 12-2-2 nm
Integral LED module and driver provided by BEGA within luminaire housing.
MAIN VOLTAGE SUPPLY WIRE TO BLACK LUMINAIRE WIRE
NEUTRAL (COMMON) SUPPLY WIRE TO WHITE LUMINAIRE WIRE
If applicable:
DIMMING CONTROL WIRE (+) TO PURPLE DRIVER WIRE
DIMMING CONTROL WIRE (-) TO GREY DRIVER WIRE
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Thanks Gus--So what does that mean that the controller can be class 1 or 2. Is that really just dependent on what wires I run? I really wish I understood what this class stuff really means or how it is determined. I have never gotten a good answer.
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I also wish I understood this class stuff :D (why my first post added "grain of salt".
My understanding from Lutron and 725.130, when you remove the Class 2 marking from the power supply, it can be wired as Class 1, using Chapt 3 wiring methods.
keep the salt in mind...
 
augie47 said:
I also wish I understood this class stuff :D (why my first post added "grain of salt".
My understanding from Lutron and 725.130, when you remove the Class 2 marking from the power supply, it can be wired as Class 1, using Chapt 3 wiring methods.
keep the salt in mind...
Click to expand...
:thumbsup:
Once you use the Class 1 reclassification to use a Chapter 3 wiring method and run the control wires in the same cable or raceway as related power, you no longer have a Class 1 power source. At that point the luminaire must be rated to accept a Class 1 input as an alternative to a Class 2 input or else you will have a violation.
Pass the salt please. :)
 
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