What are the exact codes this violates?

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mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Ok, here is the scenario. Open deck with a roof over it, someone nails a carlon box to the bottom of the deck and runs NM to it. Part of me is saying its not an issue because it can't get wet, another part of me is saying this doesn't look right.
 

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jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
In my mind there's no question that's a wet location. Can't quote section off the top of my head, but it's in the 'uses not permitted' section of the NM section in Chapter 3.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
not what I would do but may not be a violation.

I'm actually hoping this is a violation, for once.


In my mind there's no question that's a wet location. Can't quote section off the top of my head, but it's in the 'uses not permitted' section of the NM section in Chapter 3.



Thank you- I think I know what you are referring to. But ultimately the argument would have to go down to what is a wet location.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I'm actually hoping this is a violation, for once.






Thank you- I think I know what you are referring to. But ultimately the argument would have to go down to what is a wet location.
Yes. If the floor above didn't allow water to pass through it may only be a damp location. I have similar covered patio with a patio below it - both open to elements on the sides. We get those "horizontal rains" at times and all of the floor gets wet during some of those events. The floor is designed to drain water between flooring members.
 

Coppersmith

Senior Member
Location
Tampa, FL, USA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
That is definitely a wet location. I can see sunlight coming through some of the deck boards. I can see the drip patterns on the joists. NM is not allowed in a wet location. I don't think that Carlon box is wet location rated either.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
If the floor of the 2nd picture is what's nailed to the top of the floor joists in the first picture, then it is a wet location.

JAP>
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I have put recessed cans in similar deck before. But I boxed in an area around the can including the top so water doesn't come in from above. Fed it with UF cable instead of NM cable because some of the run to the light is not a dry location.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
That is definitely a wet location. I can see sunlight coming through some of the deck boards. I can see the drip patterns on the joists. NM is not allowed in a wet location. I don't think that Carlon box is wet location rated either.

Yup. It's 'subject to saturation with water' and 'exposed to weather'.

Interestingly, 334.12(B) doesn't apply to NMC, only to NM and NMS. NMC is permitted for damp locations but not explicitly prohibited in wet locations.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Thank you for all the replies! The horizontal rain theory very likely makes this a wet location. As is you can see what looks like rust on the staples.
 

mortimer

third party inspector
Location
New England
Occupation
retired
That is definitely a wet location. I can see sunlight coming through some of the deck boards. I can see the drip patterns on the joists. NM is not allowed in a wet location. I don't think that Carlon box is wet location rated either.
look @ the top picture. Not a wet location IMO
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Thank you for all the replies! The horizontal rain theory very likely makes this a wet location. As is you can see what looks like rust on the staples.
Treated lumber will do that even if it never gets any wetter than what the lumber is when first installed.

look @ the top picture. Not a wet location IMO
If flooring above were a type that isn't made to drain through the floor, I would think you might be able to say that, but it likely does drain through the seams and therefore is likely to get water through it at times. If upper porch were completely enclosed, you would be one step closer to being able to call it dry location above that floor.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
A lot of moisture can travel upwards , especially since heat attracts.

that would not do well on say, a farm

jmho

~RJ~
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
This is funny/strange as I just had a similar install a few months back. Lady wanted a ceiling fan on the joists of the lower level. Both the contractor and I tried to talk her out of it but she was insistent on having the fan because, after all, it was an outdoor fan!:roll:

Jump ahead a couple of months and I get a call from the contractor asking me to go check the fan as the customer says she heard it "sizzling" and thought she saw smoke coming out of it. She thought it was because of rain. Well I was busy and just couldn't go check it so the contractor said he would go.

After looking and questioning her more, he found out that she had an ice cooler on the upper deck and it got turned over and dumped water right over where the fan was!:)

But I will agree, a covered patio like that is most likely a wet location because of blowing rain. They get just as wet sometimes as if there were no roof on the top level.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
a consession.....?

>>>
Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not
subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to
moderate degrees of moisture. (CMP-1)

Informational Note: Examples of such locations include partially
protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open
porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to
moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some
barns, and some cold-storage warehouses
.

~RJ~
 
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