What authority governs the number of qualified personal for energized work.

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VinceS

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I spent the weekend rereading the NFPA-70E and various OSHA documents with a specific focus on the manning requirements for conducting energized electrical work. They all seem to be missing a key to manpower requirements. I think most of us working in the Electrical Trade have had training stressing a 2 person rule when conducting live electrical work.

When conducting energized work of troubleshooting some Institutions have a safety plan which requires the qualified second person have the training and qualification to conduct CPR and use an ALD. Its obvious that different institutions may have more severe standards, but I cant seem to find the requirements for the minimum.

Does a written requirement concerning the manning of energized electrical work exist?

Does this authority reside at the institutional level and this requirement will vary according to the institution at which work is being performed?

The twist, NFPA 70E requires Qualified Personnel be trained in first aid and approved resuscitation methods (110.6(C)). So if your working alone what is the point of the requirement of CPR and first aid training.
 
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VinceS

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Again, Mark you have a valid point.

I mostly find the requirement for CPR and First aid ironic if there is no requirement for a second person to conduct it.
 
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VinceS

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"Paragraph (b)(1)(i)(B) of proposed 1910.269 would have required the presence of enough CPR-trained individuals to enable emergency treatment to begin within 4 minutes of an accident. Many commenters objected to the imposition of a time limit on the response to an accident (Ex. 3-20, 3-39, 3-42, 3-80, 3-112, 3-123, 3-131). Most claimed that a stricken employee may not be discovered for a while, making it impossible for employers to meet the standard. Some commenters suggested modifying the rule to apply the 4-minute limit starting with discovery of the accident (Ex. 3-39, 3-73, 3-83). Others recommended more general language, such as "as soon as practical", "as soon as possible", or simply "trained persons shall be available" (Ex. 3-20, 3-80, 3-123, 56).

OSHA intended proposed paragraph (b)(1)(i)(B) to provide guidance in the determination of the number of trained people necessary for prompt application of first aid or CPR in the event of an accident. The 4-minute time given in the proposal was not intended as an absolute time limit on responding to an accident and did not account for delays in discovering an accident. In fact, at the public hearing, Agency representatives stated that the proposal was written in performance language and that the standard would be enforced by determining the time it would take for a CPR-trained individual to get to an injured employee (DC Tr. 201-203). If the provision were worded so that the number of trained employees was based on the total time after discovery of the accident, travel time between the nearest trained person and the exposed employee would not always be counted. OSHA believes that it is important for cardiopulmonary resuscitation to begin within 4 minutes of an electric shock injury. The record indicates that once that time has passed CPR is of limited usefulness. The Agency also believes that it is important for the final rule to incorporate this objective. OSHA has reworded this requirement, however, to state its intent that exposed employees be no more than 4 minutes from a CPR-trained person."

Based on this, I wonder how a single lineman can conduct a repair on an energized circuit.
 
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VinceS

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Well this is the answer for linemen

Well this is the answer for linemen

10/10/2007 - Clarification of the 1910.269 requirement for the presence of at least two "qualified" employees for work on exposed energized lines.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=25917

The standard also requires the presence of two or more employees when performing other work that exposes the employees to electrical hazards greater than or equal to those posed by these operations. 29 CFR 1910.269(l)(1)(i)(E). Based on the information you provided, the described work on the direct-burial secondary cable would expose employees to electrical hazards greater than or equal to those activities set forth in paragraphs 1910.269(l)(1)(i)(A) through 1910.269(l)(1)(i)(D). This is due to the location of the primary cables in the underground transformer and the potential for employees to contact these cables when performing the work.
 
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VinceS

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The downside...

The downside...

Most of the two person rule requirements are specified for 600V and higher.

So... I'm still looking for the guidance for us less than 600V people. I'm sure the CPR requirements are the same, with a four minute response. In a large facility you and a helper may be working greater than 4 minutes away from each other, assuming the helper is a qualified person. Are you then required to provide 4 personnel for the job?
 
quogueelectric

quogueelectric

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Location
new york
VinceS said:
Most of the two person rule requirements are specified for 600V and higher.

So... I'm still looking for the guidance for us less than 600V people. I'm sure the CPR requirements are the same, with a four minute response. In a large facility you and a helper may be working greater than 4 minutes away from each other, assuming the helper is a qualified person. Are you then required to provide 4 personnel for the job?
Click to expand...
Some unions have in thier contract a rule when working hot 480/277 there must be two journeyman. It is rarely enforced and everytime I have seen it forced on a foreman the journeyman got the pink slip as soon as possible for defying the foreman.
 
zog

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
VinceS said:
Most of the two person rule requirements are specified for 600V and higher.

So... I'm still looking for the guidance for us less than 600V people. I'm sure the CPR requirements are the same, with a four minute response. In a large facility you and a helper may be working greater than 4 minutes away from each other, assuming the helper is a qualified person. Are you then required to provide 4 personnel for the job?
Click to expand...

You have found all there is to find, 1910.269 covers 2 person equirements for >600V, there are none for <600V

As far as the CPR question, yes, you have that right.

Edit to add, I think there should be more rules for working with a partner myself, but there arent. i have addressed that with the 70E commitee and OSHA, and the answer I get is, "Eneergized work should be a rare occurence, it must be justified, so a rule for a 2 person requirement is not needed, the EEWP covers that"

Problem with that is for T/S, a EEWP is not required, so there is a little loophole there.

It seems you are a Safety type person at a facility, remmember, you can require whatever you want over and above OSHA at your facillity or company.
 
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VinceS

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Well, all for naught

Well, all for naught

I sure would like better clarification, I guess it's a cost issue for the institution.
I remain humored about NFPA 70E requirements to be CPR qualified. I agree about T/S energized equipment's loophole. This is often the most dangerous time to be in front of a open bucket door, my flash gear isn't arc blast gear.

I guess I might have to tape a grounded ALD to my chest, and hope I bounce to assist my breathing if I'm ever shocked. (Poor humor, and possible strong sarcasm also.)

Thank you Zog, and all the others also. Someday a lawyer will get rich on this area, because some good brother or sister died.
 
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