What brands of breakers coincide with what brands of panels?

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peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
zappy said:
Where do i find info on what brands can intermix? Thank you.
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A general rule of thumb is that you must match the brand of breaker to the brand of the panel.

Where the brand of panel no longer exists, what I generally do is use the breaker of the company that bought out that particular line. For instance, Crouse Hinds will get a Siemens/Murray breaker.

Cutler Hammer is a UL listed replacement for Challenger, Westinghouse and Bryant.

And when all else fails, you can use a UL Classified (Type CL) which are good for quite a range of panels.
 
K

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
If it's a GE, it gets a GE breaker. If it's a Cutler Hammer, it gets a Cutler

Hammer breaker,etc. I agree with the other posters that if the panel

is no longer made then I use a breaker from the CO. that bought them out.

Or should I say a CO. that makes a "Listed" replacement for X panel.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
The only one I'm confused about are the short lived Thomas and Betts loadcenters. I don't know if they even have a listed replacement. They looked absolutely identical to the Challenger/Westinghouse stuff of that time, so I just use a Cutler Hammer breaker if I ever run across one.
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
There is a label place on the inside of the enclosure that lists the circuit breakers the manufacturer has tested and approved to be installed in that enclosure.
Remember the type of breaker, even from the same manufacturer can change from enclosure to enclosure.
 
K

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
Pierre C Belarge said:
There is a label place on the inside of the enclosure that lists the circuit breakers the manufacturer has tested and approved to be installed in that enclosure.
Remember the type of breaker, even from the same manufacturer can change from enclosure to enclosure.
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That's a good point Pierre. I always check the label on the panel

to see what they suggest when replacing or installing a breaker in

a load center. I mainly deal with "Bolt-on's" so if it isn't a Siemens it

won't fit,etc.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I agree the panel label is the place to start.

That said you can often find UL Classified breakers for use in panels of other manufacturer.

This is is one of those things that makes UL look a little foolish, they say follow the label on the panel but also classify other breakers for use in those panels.

Keep in mind classified breakers are limited to 10K fault current.



Classified Circuit Breakers


Background
In the late 1980s Classified circuit breakers were introduced into the marketplace by Light Circuit Breaker (LCB) for use in several manufacturers panelboards including Siemens. In 1989 Siemens Energy & Automation introduced a Classified circuit breaker for use in Specified Square D panelboards. Since that time other companies including Westinghouse (Cutler-Hammer), Challenger, and T&B have also introduced Classified circuit breakers. There has always been confusion and controversy regarding these devices and what are their limitations and application.

What They Are
Classified circuit breakers are devices that have been investigated by UL to be suitable for replacement of specific Listed circuit breakers in specific Listed panelboards. The circuit breakers are limited to 1 and 2-pole, 15-60 Amp, 120/240 Vac and are limited to use in 225 Amp and less panelboards. Classified circuit breakers are very much like a Listed circuit breaker. In fact the same breaker may be both Listed and Classified. The Siemens Type QD circuit breaker is an example. The primary difference between Listing and Classification is that a Listed breaker also has a Listed circuit breaker enclosure to be used in while the Classified circuit breaker does not.

Performance Requirements
Classified circuit breakers, just like Listed circuit breakers, are tested to the requirements of UL 489, Molded-Case Circuit Breakers, Molded-Case Switches, and Circuit-Breaker Enclosures. Both devices meet all the same test requirements and have the same Follow-Up requirements. There is no difference in a Classified circuit breaker and a Listed circuit breaker as far as construction and performance are concerned. The differences occur in the use of the circuit breakers in panelboards and the requirements for the use of Classified circuit breakers actually appear in UL 67, Panelboards.

Supplement SB of UL 67 describes the testing that Classified circuit breakers must pass. This is basically the standard panelboard requirements that Listed circuit breakers must meet. The primary difference is that the Classified circuit breakers and Listed circuit breakers are evaluated for use together in the panelboard. While the panelboard manufacturer tests the panelboard for compliance with UL 67 when the panelboard is used with specified breakers, the Classified circuit breaker manufacturer tests the panelboard to demonstrate that the panelboard is acceptable when used with the Classified breakers in place of, and with, the Listed circuit breakers. While the process is basically the same for either, the Classified testing can be much more involved since the breakers are identified as replacements and must match the specified breakers in all aspects. Also if there is more than one circuit breaker Classified for use in a panelboard all combinations of Classified and Listed circuit breakers must be tested together in the panelboard by the Classified circuit breaker manufacturer.

Short Circuit Ratings and Series Ratings
When the requirements for Classified breakers were being written series ratings and interrupting ratings were discussed. Many manufacturers believed that it was desirable to limit the application of Classified circuit breakers to installation ratings of 10,000A although there is no technical reason for the limitation if the breakers were tested in the specified panelboards. Series ratings were also discussed at length and it was concluded that Classified circuit breakers should not be used in series applications. While there is also no technical reason for this, the complexity of many series listings and marking requirements basically preclude using Classified circuit breakers in series applications.

Interchangeable Circuit Breakers
A number of manufacturers produce circuit breakers that are physically interchangeable. These are sometimes referred to as interchangeable circuit breakers and users, at times, have interpreted the fact that these circuit breakers are physically interchangeable, to be an indication that it is acceptable to use these Listed circuit breakers interchangeably in a panelboard. This is incorrect. The physical interchangeability is not an indication that they are electrically interchangeable. This must be verified by test. Unless the circuit breaker is marked on the panelboard as being acceptable or it is Classified as being acceptable, the circuit breakers have not been tested in the panelboards and should not be used.

These physically interchangeable circuit breakers exist for a number of reasons but primarily for the interchangeability that may exist if they are tested. There are many manufacturers of panelboards and other products that do not manufacture circuit breakers. The verification of the acceptability of a Listed circuit breaker is done by the panelboard manufacturer and it is to their advantage to have a panel design that can be tested for use with circuit breakers from more than one manufacturer. Likewise it may be to the circuit breaker manufacturer’s advantage to have an interchangeable circuit breaker to participate in this OEM market.

Circuit breaker manufacturers produce circuit breakers for use in a variety of products and any panelboard manufacturer may use any circuit breaker in his panelboard as long as he tests the combination(s) to UL 67.

Marking and Application
In order to provide adequate information to determine where Classified circuit breakers may be used the circuit breakers are required to have very specific markings. One problem that has shown up is that some manufacturers attempt to confuse the user by providing markings that do not contain the required information.

Instead of providing the detailed information the markings provided by some classified circuit breaker manufacturers are very general and only deal with breaker types rather than catalog numbers, have no reference to poles or electrical ratings, and confuse the company names for the breakers they can replace. This gives the impression the breakers have a much broader application than they really do.

The Classified circuit breaker must be marked to clarify the limitations of use on short circuit applications and series ratings. In addition each breaker is required to have a Compatibility List which, according to the UL Listing Card for Classified circuit breakers, “... tabulates the company name, catalog number, number of poles and electrical rating of the Classified circuit breaker, in addition to the company name and catalog number of the applicable UL Listed panelboards, and UL Listed circuit breakers in place of which the Classified circuit breaker has been investigated.” These markings provide the user and the AHJ with detailed information to determine where the Classified breaker has been evaluated for use.

Code Compliance
What about the requirements of 110-3(b) of the National Electrical Code? This Code Section requires that products be used in accordance with instructions included in their listing and labeling and the use of Classified circuit breakers does present a dilemma to some inspectors.

The panelboard is marked to indicate the only circuit breakers to be used in the panelboard are the specific Listed circuit breakers with which the panelboards were evaluated and Listed by the panelboard manufacturer. The Classified circuit breakers, on the other hand, also have instructions included in their listing and labeling indicating the specific Listed panelboards for which they have been evaluated for use in. These are not in conflict with each other. Each manufacturer is listing and marking in accordance with the testing they have done. The Classified circuit breaker manufacturer has done testing in addition to the testing done by the panelboard manufacturer.

The final decision on acceptance of Classified circuit breakers, as with any issue, rests with the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ).
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From here
 
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peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
mkgrady said:
Are Siemens and Murry interchangable?
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Technically they aren't, but I do interchange them. I consider it absurd that a breaker made by the same company and is 100% identical cannot be interchanged by virtue of having a different name on it. Siemens really needs to address this issue in their listings.
 
MarkyMarkNC

MarkyMarkNC

Senior Member
Location
Raleigh NC
I had an inspector tell me one time, that the issue was not only what breakers are UL listed as interchangeable, but whether the manufacturer would warranty their panel if it had another manufacturers breaker in it.

He would not allow any breaker in a Square D panel that was not Square D manufactured.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
MarkyMarkNC said:
I had an inspector tell me one time, that the issue was not only what breakers are UL listed as interchangeable, but whether the manufacturer would warranty their panel if it had another manufacturers breaker in it.

He would not allow any breaker in a Square D panel that was not Square D manufactured.
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Are you in Durham, NC?:smile:
 
MarkyMarkNC

MarkyMarkNC

Senior Member
Location
Raleigh NC
Dennis Alwon said:
Are you in Durham, NC?:smile:
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Actually from Raleigh, but the inspector I was referencing was from Durham. I have a feeling you know which inspector I am speaking of!!! :grin:

Another tidbit of info I remember a Cutler Hammer sales guy telling me was that even though Challenger and Westinghouse were bought out by Cutler Hammer, certain lines of breakers were bought out by either GE or Thomas & Betts!!!

Whenever I have a breaker - panel combination I am unsure of, I call one of my supply house's outside sales guys who has been in the business for about 80 years!!! He can usually steer me in the right direction. Then I call the manufacturers' tech hot-line to get their blessing.
 
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