What is a Service

[k947]

Please give me some guidance. A co-worker and I have different ideas of what is a service. I say the service starts with the conductors coming into a meter base(s) from the utility. Thus if you have this one set of utility conductors (whether over head or underground) into a five gang meter base, this is one service and thus the disconnects for five different meters must all be located in the same area. My co-worker says that it does not mater what the utility brings in, but with the five gang meter base, he says it is five different services and the disconnects can be located away from each other.

I would appreciate any help with this.

Thanks

 

[augie47]

Service: The conductors and equipment for delivering electric energy from the serving utility to the wiring system of the premises served.
Sounds like you have ONE service and the service disconnects would need to be grouped per 230.72 unless you can meet one of the exceptions in 230.40 (which you very well might)

 

[kwired]

Please give me some guidance. A co-worker and I have different ideas of what is a service. I say the service starts with the conductors coming into a meter base(s) from the utility. Thus if you have this one set of utility conductors (whether over head or underground) into a five gang meter base, this is one service and thus the disconnects for five different meters must all be located in the same area. My co-worker says that it does not mater what the utility brings in, but with the five gang meter base, he says it is five different services and the disconnects can be located away from each other.

I would appreciate any help with this.

Thanks

A meter can be inserted in the "service conductors" but the presence or absence of a meter doesn't dictate what is service and what isn't.

Per the definition that Gus referred to - service conductors (may have additional wording ahead of it for further clarification) is anything ahead of the service disconnecting means.

Now to get into article 230 a little deeper, in general (there are exceptions) we are only permitted to have one "service" at a building or structure. That single service can have up to six disconnecting means though. Those six disconnecting means can all be in the same cabinet or other enclosure, or can be in separate enclosures - but must have all of them "grouped" at the same location.

Multiple underground sets of service conductors that are connected together at the supply end but feed separate disconnecting means on the load end, is considered one service. More then six sets/six disconnects - is still one service - it just doesn't comply with the six disconnect rule.

 

[Carultch]

A meter can be inserted in the "service conductors" but the presence or absence of a meter doesn't dictate what is service and what isn't.

Per the definition that Gus referred to - service conductors (may have additional wording ahead of it for further clarification) is anything ahead of the service disconnecting means.

Now to get into article 230 a little deeper, in general (there are exceptions) we are only permitted to have one "service" at a building or structure. That single service can have up to six disconnecting means though. Those six disconnecting means can all be in the same cabinet or other enclosure, or can be in separate enclosures - but must have all of them "grouped" at the same location.

Multiple underground sets of service conductors that are connected together at the supply end but feed separate disconnecting means on the load end, is considered one service. More then six sets/six disconnects - is still one service - it just doesn't comply with the six disconnect rule.

Six (6) seems like it is a very specific number, of all possible numbers that people can easily count. Does anyone know the history of why this number was selected.

I wouldn't be as surprised if it were 1 disconnect, or 2 disconnects...or maybe even 5 or 10. Somehow it seems as if there was a very specific reason, for choosing the number 6 as standard maximum number of service disconnects.

 

[Carultch]

Please give me some guidance. A co-worker and I have different ideas of what is a service. I say the service starts with the conductors coming into a meter base(s) from the utility. Thus if you have this one set of utility conductors (whether over head or underground) into a five gang meter base, this is one service and thus the disconnects for five different meters must all be located in the same area. My co-worker says that it does not mater what the utility brings in, but with the five gang meter base, he says it is five different services and the disconnects can be located away from each other.

I would appreciate any help with this.

Thanks

I understand your confusion. The question of yours, is how to know where one service is separate from another service. As in "what piece of equipment, makes the services separate?". And how to know just how many services you have at a building. It can be tricky to make a one-size-fits-all answer for all situations.

In this situation, you have one group of service conductors, possibly with multiple parallelled sets to make for your ampacity. One trench or overhead line, that is eventually "paralleled" as it is connected to the five different meters, and five different disconnects.

Because there is only one passage from the utility to the customer's service equipment, and only one master connection to utility owned equipment, this all counts as one service. One service with five disconnects, which all have to be grouped nearest the point of service entrance.

 

[k947]

Thanks

Thanks

Please give me some guidance. A co-worker and I have different ideas of what is a service. I say the service starts with the conductors coming into a meter base(s) from the utility. Thus if you have this one set of utility conductors (whether over head or underground) into a five gang meter base, this is one service and thus the disconnects for five different meters must all be located in the same area. My co-worker says that it does not mater what the utility brings in, but with the five gang meter base, he says it is five different services and the disconnects can be located away from each other.

I would appreciate any help with this.

Thanks

Thanks to all. I have interpreted the code the way you all have and I wanted to make sure I wasn't wrong. My co-worker thinks that each meter is its own service and the six throw rule can then be applied at the termination point for these conductors after the meter. I really appreciate the help and knowledge that this forum offers.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thanks to all. I have interpreted the code the way you all have and I wanted to make sure I wasn't wrong. My co-worker thinks that each meter is its own service and the six throw rule can then be applied at the termination point for these conductors after the meter. I really appreciate the help and knowledge that this forum offers.

While not a service, the conductors on the load side of each meter are service entrance conductors, and each set of service entrance conductors is permitted to have six means of disconnect. 230.71(A)

The issue is the required grouping of no more than six service disconnects at a single location.

As long as the 5 sets of six disconnects are not grouped (what ever that means) with each other, you can have five sets of six service disconnects for a building that has five meters.

 

[david]

Please give me some guidance. A co-worker and I have different ideas of what is a service. I say the service starts with the conductors coming into a meter base(s) from the utility. Thus if you have this one set of utility conductors (whether over head or underground) into a five gang meter base, this is one service and thus the disconnects for five different meters must all be located in the same area. My co-worker says that it does not mater what the utility brings in, but with the five gang meter base, he says it is five different services and the disconnects can be located away from each other.

I would appreciate any help with this.

Thanks

Thanks to all. I have interpreted the code the way you all have and I wanted to make sure I wasn't wrong. My co-worker thinks that each meter is its own service and the six throw rule can then be applied at the termination point for these conductors after the meter. I really appreciate the help and knowledge that this forum offers.

It is most likely a multi occupancy building with one set of service entrance conductors run from the outside meter location to a service disconnect located in each of the five different occupancy.

Your co-worker is using the wrong term, but it is not a correct assumption that the service disconnects have to be grouped at the meter location or grouped at another location.

As was stated here grouping of the disconnects is the general rule but multi occupancy buildings often are set up to comply with one of the exceptions.

IV. Service-Entrance Conductors
230.40 Number of Service-Entrance Conductor Sets. Each service drop or lateral shall supply only one set of service-entrance conductors. Exception No. 1: A building with more than one occupancy shall be permitted to have one set of service-entrance conductors for each service, as defined in 230.2, run to each occupancy or group of occupancies.

230.71 Maximum Number of Disconnects.

Edit see Don's post he posted while i was typing and had all ready covered this

 

[shortcircuit2]

Six (6) seems like it is a very specific number, of all possible numbers that people can easily count. Does anyone know the history of why this number was selected.

I wouldn't be as surprised if it were 1 disconnect, or 2 disconnects...or maybe even 5 or 10. Somehow it seems as if there was a very specific reason, for choosing the number 6 as standard maximum number of service disconnects.

That's easy...when the code writers discussed the article one had brought a 6pack of beer...so they were happy and decided how about 6...