What should I do?

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Sparky820

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Tavares, Fl
I am a qualifier for a small electrical company in Florida. In the beginning things were good. But over time he has decided not to do the things I ask him to do on the jobs. Some are minor things that technically are not code but are good work practices. Other are valid code issues but he refuses to take anybody’s word. I have told him numerous times that I am ultimately responsible and that I’m the one who they will come after if something goes wrong. He says I’m not liable and that if there ever was a problem insurance would handle it. Of course he is wrong but that‘s not my question. He has now gotten another license holder to qualify the company (behind my back). Today when I confronted him about it, he told me “ He can’t bid jobs the way I want (legal per code because he would lose every job)”. So obviously I will be exiting the place. But are there any precautions or actions to protect myself before I’m out the door? Every time I find something that needs fixed, he says” We are not going to spend a lot of time on that. I consider this a very bad business decision. Obviously he cares more about $$$ than quality work. I told him the new guy would have to be able to supervise the work and he said “Nope, he can supervise it and the license holder was hired to do nothing but pull permits and qualify the company”. Again I know this is not true. But mainly, how do I protect myself before I get out of this?
 
When you agree to qualify a company it's foolish to do so without a legal contract which states your rights and responsibilities. It sounds like you had no such contract. There is nothing you can do about it now. If something goes wrong with one of the jobs you may get called before the electrical board (but this is unlikely). You can explain like you just explained to us. It may help or it may not.

If things are being done on the job that you think are dangerous, you can attempt to remove yourself from the permit. Speak to the permit agncy on what your options are.
 
Sparky820 said:
I have told him numerous times that I am ultimately responsible and that I’m the one who they will come after if something goes wrong. He says I’m not liable and that if there ever was a problem insurance would handle it...
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Making this comment for anyone else reading; they don’t “just handle it”.


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Insurance companies have seen many scammers come and go but they are still there. The insurer will say 'yes we take your premium, ' no we do not insure you for illegal work'. They will also start out by looking for anything they can use to deny the claim. I would say this is their default position, they are already one step ahead.

Anything life safety or risk of injury that you have your name on, put it in writing and deliver the letter to one or more of the alphabet agencies. I don't see another choice there. You just get better and faster at that with practice.

That only attempts to cover you. You have to be able to show you attempted to be dilligent by first reporting. If you think the alphabet agencies will enforce something you bring to them, I have tried that. The phrase 'crime does not pay', 'crime does pay' comes to mind. If there is no enforcement, then crime does pay. If they enforce 1 out of 100, especially the smaller guys who die quickly, then "crime does not pay" would be true. 'Crime does not pay' can mean many different things. Your boss's view on this would certainly be an eye opener if you could ever get that out of him. Even talking to him about it would be playing his game.

Anyone out there doing it gets an expensive education. Unfortunately mostly stuff you don't want to know. Walk away as clean as possible and I would probably not try to correct anything that is not life safety. But then again, I might have the letter already written and just need to change the name and address.

If it is life safety or predictable injury, I would hammer that hard, something I learned to do but would rather not know.

If you made a complaint to his insurer rather than to the permit issuer, that could get more meat per round expended. But then you probably would have to go all in and copy the letter to the AHJ as well. I really don't know what attaches to you, in all of the very different ways this could play out. Real criminals take their work very seriously, which goes back to step 1, hammer them harder and faster (if necessary).

You could try to let it go quietly, but the world is both changing and the pace of change is getting faster. No one knows what the result will be.

Only one thing I would be sure of. No one is going to go around and fix the bad work (that would be you). It is done and staying that way. The only thing that happens today is everyone is quick to point the finger at someone else.

Which gets back to step 1. If there is one thing in particular that stands out as a life safety and injury risk, write that leter and deliver it. You only need one good statute to give the guy 10 to life.
 
I’d have your lawyer draft up a letter stating you are no longer license holder for that company with a specific date on it.
send a copy to all city’s and towns where you have an open permit.
 
You have a legal problem. You need to have your lawyer deal with it. My guess is it won't cost all that much for you to get out of this bad deal that you got yourself into. I'm inclined to agree that your liability is very limited. That is something your lawyer can discuss with you.
 
roger said:
There's a reason he can't pass the exam and qualify his own company.

Roger
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We can speculate from afar all we want but really the only person who can can give the original poster good advice in this situation is his lawyer. I think is best bet is just to get out and not worry about it all that much. The idea of sending a letter to all of the localities saying you're no longer associated with the company just doesn't seem to me to be anything that will do you any good as far as avoiding liability.

This is really a legal matter and needs to be dealt with by people who have some level of expertise in that field.
 
Sparky820 said:
I am a qualifier for a small electrical company in Florida. In the beginning things were good. But over time he has decided not to do the things I ask him to do on the jobs. Some are minor things that technically are not code but are good work practices. Other are valid code issues but he refuses to take anybody’s word. I have told him numerous times that I am ultimately responsible and that I’m the one who they will come after if something goes wrong. He says I’m not liable and that if there ever was a problem insurance would handle it. Of course he is wrong but that‘s not my question. He has now gotten another license holder to qualify the company (behind my back). Today when I confronted him about it, he told me “ He can’t bid jobs the way I want (legal per code because he would lose every job)”. So obviously I will be exiting the place. But are there any precautions or actions to protect myself before I’m out the door? Every time I find something that needs fixed, he says” We are not going to spend a lot of time on that. I consider this a very bad business decision. Obviously he cares more about $$$ than quality work. I told him the new guy would have to be able to supervise the work and he said “Nope, he can supervise it and the license holder was hired to do nothing but pull permits and qualify the company”. Again I know this is not true. But mainly, how do I protect myself before I get out of this?
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I would find a lawyer.
I would also quit qualifying them immediately till they fix previous problems and make you some sort of qc before a job is sold.
 
petersonra said:
We can speculate from afar all we want but really the only person who can can give the original poster good advice in this situation is his lawyer. I think is best bet is just to get out and not worry about it all that much. The idea of sending a letter to all of the localities saying you're no longer associated with the company just doesn't seem to me to be anything that will do you any good as far as avoiding liability.

This is really a legal matter and needs to be dealt with by people who have some level of expertise in that field.
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Sending a letter could help in case OPs associates are unscrupulous and try to continue to use his license.
 
flashlight said:
Sending a letter could help in case OPs associates are unscrupulous and try to continue to use his license.
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I don't know whether that's true or not. neither do you. That's why you get actual help from someone who knows, which would be an actual lawyer familiar with these matters. Not someone pretending to give legal advice from the internet.
 
petersonra said:
Sounded pretty speculative when you said the guy couldn't pass an exam.
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petersonra said:
Sounded pretty speculative when you said the guy couldn't pass an exam.
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I said there's a reason he can't pass the exam. If he meets the experience requirement, the financial requirements, the knowledge, etc...., he could sit and pass the exam then qualify his own business.

But that aside, from the OP the owner obviously doesn't care about doing things right and is willing to cut corners so that too could be a reason. Personally I would contact the DPBR and tell them you are removing your license from the particular company, they will help you through the process. An attorney might not be necessary.

Roger
 
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@Sparky820

Unfortunately what I did 4 years ago next month was walk out the door. The company I was license holder for used to listen to me.....then they gradually stopped listening. I was 63 at that time and I herd through the grape vine they figure I was too old to get another job so they didn't care. I held electrical masters in 3 states and HVAC licenses in two states that they were using my licenses

One day I stayed late packed up my office left my truck withe the keys , telephone, company credit cards in it walked out the door never went back

The next morning I e-mailed all the state licensing boards that I was no longer affiliated with the company and stopped two permits for jobs in progress.

They tried to keep me from collecting unemployment because I quit. I was determined to collect from them and I sat on my ass for 3 months and collected (as the State of MA agreed with me) for the first time in 43 years of working

Retired now but I had no trouble finding a job for three years and worked till I was 66.

It's a bad situation.

If I ever did it again (and I wont because I dropped my Masters & kept my journeymen's to do small jobs if I want) I would have a contract in writing like @Coppersmith said.

One of my buddies that works there got fired, the customers loved him and they are loosing customers now that he is gone he was an HVAC guy. So the company (in order to save face) is telling the customers he retired.
 
He is a smart guy as far as things like security, camera’s etc. He does have some electrical knowledge but here is where I don’t understand how he is trying to get Florida and/or Georgia electrical. He can’t bend anyconduit except to make a bend, cut it and jam it in. When I tell him of a code issue, he says I’m wrong. He does not have any 3 phase experience he can document so he can’t get license in Florida. But when I confronted him the other day, I told him new qualifier would have to supervise jobs. Again, he said I was wrong, that the qualifier will only pull permits and that he(owner) will supervise.He may never have an issue arise but I’m not willing to take a chance. I am walking away tomorrow but I’m still worried that he will cause a major issue such as loss of life, fire, etc.

Im worried about that more than anything. But I don’t want to cause a major problem with his new guy. I guess I just walk away and hope he doesn’t hurt anyone.
 
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