What should one do?

[Sierrasparky]

Hi , Happy New year to all of you.

There is a situation on a Public works project in a nearby town that is just perfect for me. However when I scoped the project I noticed many discrepancies in the project scope and in the contract docs. I immediatly brought them to the attention of the project manager in writing who is failing to respond. After many phone calls I finally got a message that the items will be addressed. The items in question werre addmitted in writing to be incorrect and that the would be addressed in an addendem. This addendum still has not been produced and the bid is due within hours. Each time I complained about "where is the addendum the bid time is in a few days" the agency posted an extension. This has been going on for over two months now. In my opinion this is a extremely simple project and the corrections would take all of about a hour to draft at my slow speed. This time I have remained silent with regards to the time extension, no document addemdums have been provided and no extension has also been posted.

I don't see the point of all this other than an attempt to screw someone over.

Any thoughts?

 

[cowboyjwc]

I don't have an answer for you, but I will tell you this, the two projects I hate to work on the most are city projects and church's.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I don't have an answer for you, but I will tell you this, the two projects I hate to work on the most are city projects and church's.

why is that ? Cheap?

 

[cowboyjwc]

That's probably the main reason and both seem to drag out for no real reason.

 

[mkgrady]

Hi , Happy New year to all of you.

There is a situation on a Public works project in a nearby town that is just perfect for me. However when I scoped the project I noticed many discrepancies in the project scope and in the contract docs. I immediatly brought them to the attention of the project manager in writing who is failing to respond. After many phone calls I finally got a message that the items will be addressed. The items in question werre addmitted in writing to be incorrect and that the would be addressed in an addendem. This addendum still has not been produced and the bid is due within hours. Each time I complained about "where is the addendum the bid time is in a few days" the agency posted an extension. This has been going on for over two months now. In my opinion this is a extremely simple project and the corrections would take all of about a hour to draft at my slow speed. This time I have remained silent with regards to the time extension, no document addemdums have been provided and no extension has also been posted.

I don't see the point of all this other than an attempt to screw someone over.

Any thoughts?

The way to cover yourself is to make sure all of the ambiguities are described in writing to the awarding authority. Then explain to the awarding authority what you intend to include in your bid in the absense of a clarifcation. Bear in mind that what you explain as your interpretation must actually be a reasonable interpretation of what is dictated by the contract documents. You send this information prior to the bid with enough time for them to respond. Then when the bids are due you submit your bid with no qualifications if they would disqualify your bid.

If you are awarded the contract you have a very strong case for performing the job the way you explained you would perform it in your prebid correspondence. If you do not point out a prebid ambiguity you are toast if that ambiguity is patent (you should have noticed). The owner gets to dictate any way they want on the ambuguous requirements because you have a duty to seek prebid clarifications on things that are a patently ambiguous. The exception would be a latent (not easily noticed)ambuguity. In that case you just have to have a reasonable interpretation of what you saw and you didn't even realize there were ambiguous requirements.

An example of a patent ambiguity would be for the spec to require GRC and the drawings to require EMT, and the specification dictates that specifications take precedence over plans. You have to install GRC by contract because the ambiguity was resolved easily by reading the spec.

 

[Sierrasparky]

What if the issue is that both the contract requirements and the specifications for a retrofit are absolutly incorrect. Lets say the specs and plans call for to replace a generator 30k 120/208 . The specs call out a part number and say "no substitutions". There is no name plate but you know it is a 10 k 480v unit. You submit a RFI timely for clarification. Do they want a replacement or do they wish to change the system. You speak with the project manager personally he tells you he will respond in writing and make the corrections. It is several months later the bid date has been extended several times but the specs and contract docs have not been revised or and addendum been made. The PM or Engineer in charger will not respond to Email, phone, cell phone , or messages placed in person.
Now what?

 

[maghazadeh]

My experince has been that if you want to get the job, then do not try to educate others. If you find problem with design and / or discrepancies keep it to your self and provide them with very detailed proposal. After they award the project hopefully to you then you can start to educate and hit them with change orders $$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

[Sierrasparky]

The problem is the contract docs are very specific, they call for 1 of this 20 of that 50 of those. None of which will do the job. They want no sustitutions and any differences or subject too will be demmed non- responsive. What they are expecting is one to bid the quantities specified and also sigh that they will do a complete job. I was told on the sly that the lowest bidder will be able to re-engineer and work with the city to make the project work. I feel that if you submit a bid you can be held responsible to perform and not be able to re-work the project or scope.

 

[Fulthrotl]

The problem is the contract docs are very specific, they call for 1 of this 20 of that 50 of those. None of which will do the job. They want no sustitutions and any differences or subject too will be demmed non- responsive. What they are expecting is one to bid the quantities specified and also sigh that they will do a complete job. I was told on the sly that the lowest bidder will be able to re-engineer and work with the city to make the project work. I feel that if you submit a bid you can be held responsible to perform and not be able to re-work the project or scope.

it's called a "buddy deal".
it's not your buddy deal.

go bid something else.

if you bid it, and are awarded it, you will be held to build what they want, with the two Popsicle
sticks and three ping pong balls they allow. you will have to buy the stuff required out of your
own pocket. the person getting it, if it's the right person, will be allowed to field engineer it,
and all will be permitted.

now, if you insist on your right to bid this, go ahead, and RFI them to death. call, message,
pester and be a royal PITA to all the people in positions to make your possibility of profit
evaporate.

good luck.

 

[Sierrasparky]

So how is the profits going evaporate. If you are speaking of extras the contract docs cover that and there won't be any.

That is unless you are the bro.

 

[Fulthrotl]

So how is the profits going evaporate. If you are speaking of extras the contract docs cover that and there won't be any.

That is unless you are the bro.

well, you are saying that they allow you a certain list of material, that you have to bid it by,
but you can't actually do the work with that material, correct?

so you have to use different material or equipment, yes? and that material or equipment
costs more, yes? last time i checked, that may affect your profit.

and yeah, that's me... i'm gonna drive up to wherever you are located, and grab this
job out of your hands. i've got the inside track on it, and it's all mine.

geez.

 

[Sierrasparky]

well, you are saying that they allow you a certain list of material, that you have to bid it by,
but you can't actually do the work with that material, correct?

so you have to use different material or equipment, yes? and that material or equipment
costs more, yes? last time i checked, that may affect your profit.

and yeah, that's me... i'm gonna drive up to wherever you are located, and grab this
job out of your hands. i've got the inside track on it, and it's all mine.

geez.

And how do you think you will be ther lowest bidder. If you bid to do the job as you see in the specs you will have under bid with no recourse of extras. If you bid the project as necessary you will possibly have over bid. It is my belief this project is reserved for the Buddy deal and no recourse. I may be wrong but the recourse may be to get the contract and spec to be corrected.

 

[Fulthrotl]

It is my belief this project is reserved for the Buddy deal and no recourse. I may be wrong but the recourse may be to get the contract and spec to be corrected.

well, that was evident in your initial post.

guess you'll just have to make them change the paperwork so that you can successfully bid it.
hope that works out well for you.

 

[Sierrasparky]

well, that was evident in your initial post.

guess you'll just have to make them change the paperwork so that you can successfully bid it.
hope that works out well for you.

And how do you think you will be ther lowest bidder. If you bid to do the job as you see in the specs you will have under bid with no recourse of extras. If you bid the project as necessary you will possibly have over bid. It is my belief this project is reserved for the Buddy deal and no recourse. I may be wrong but the recourse may be to get the contract and spec to be corrected.

And How does that answer my question about how would you be the lowest bidder??

 

[stevenje]

And How does that answer my question about how would you be the lowest bidder??

Bid it the way you think it needs to be done right and move on to the next one. These kind of situations rarely turn out well for the subs. If it is a pain in the ass to bid, just imagine what a pain it is going to be to complete the job and turn a profit.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Bid it the way you think it needs to be done right and move on to the next one. These kind of situations rarely turn out well for the subs. If it is a pain in the ass to bid, just imagine what a pain it is going to be to complete the job and turn a profit.

This is a Electrical only job. Will have prime contract with the agency , no subcontract.
This is really a simple job it's just that the specs are wrong. Somone copied and pasted from another project and just do not apply to this one.

as far as pain in the axx it seems that all the jobs around here are such a pain in the behing. Thought this job would be great no GC to deal with. I really thought the engineer would fix the discrepancies. Being that it goes to bid Friday I may just pass as it will cost a new bond or will tie up cash if I submit.