What to do?

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ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
We have guys out at a residence trying to drive an 8' ground rod, and they are hitting rock way before the rod is even halfway driven, even though they are already going in at the maximum angle allowed. They tell me that digging down 30 inches to bury the rod or a plate is not feasible. What else is there?

And don't suggest cutting off the bottom 6' of the rod, OK? :D
 
Hilti makes a ground rod driver that is basically an adapted electric jack hammer that is supposed to be able to drive a ground rod in impossible conditions.

I would never suggest cutting off the bottom of the rod. What a pain that would be. Cut off the top instead.
 
Hilti makes a ground rod driver that is basically an adapted electric jack hammer that is supposed to be able to drive a ground rod in impossible conditions.

I would never suggest cutting off the bottom of the rod. What a pain that would be. Cut off the top instead.

A friend of mine told me about a guy he worked with who tried that stunt, but when he discarded the cut off end of the rod he just tossed it aside in some bushes. When the inspector drove up he parked right next to those bushes and saw the piece of rod lying there when he got out of his car. The inspector walked up to the site twirling the piece of rod like a batter walking up to the plate. Oops.

That reminds me; I really miss baseball. :D
 
I don't have time to look up the references, but I believe the code allows for burying at an angle or in a trench.
 
Hilti makes a ground rod driver that is basically an adapted electric jack hammer that is supposed to be able to drive a ground rod in impossible conditions.

I would never suggest cutting off the bottom of the rod. What a pain that would be. Cut off the top instead.

spoken with the clarity and insight of a man who knows the way to the winged horses. :cool:

hilti, among others, makes a socket to fit in a demo hammer, and drive rods

hili, uniquely, also makes a driver that clamps onto the rod midpoint, so you don't have
to stand on top of a 8' ladder with a jackhammer, looking stupid.

for what it costs, i'll get the $60 version, and look stupid using it. as i often look stupid anyway,
i might as well save the money. some folks just put the socket of a demo hammer directly over
the rod, and drive it. it's a good way to screw up your demo hammer, so it becomes a driving
groundrods only sort of tool.

and it won't drive rods thru kryptonite, despite what lies hilti says. however, you can just leave
it sit there till it drives it in, or stops so long it spalls the top 2" of the rod into a mushroom.

i've only found one time it wouldn't drive a ground rod, however. it was when it turned out there
was a thick slab buried 5' down in a quarry. turned out to be the base for a crane, taken out
after the second world war, i was later told.
 
... when he discarded the cut off end of the rod he just tossed it aside in some bushes. The inspector ... saw the piece of rod lying there ... The inspector walked up to the site twirling the piece of rod like a batter walking up to the plate. Oops. ...
Littering has always bothered me. It was nice to hear about bad karma catching up with a litterer.
 
Lets start by asking the obvious question first. What is he trying to accomplish by driving a ground rod? Is this for a residential service, a light pole, a generator, a fence?
 
Any chance the rock is deeper down anywhere within 50-100' of the panel? The NEC does not put a length limit on the GEC AFAIK. Burial depth for the GEC should not be a problem.

Good idea, keep moving laterally until you find a place to install the electrodes and then the GEC only needs to be buried just below the surface of the ground. ;)
 
Dig a 20' long ditch next to the homes footing. Lay some #4 copper or rebar across some dobie blocks and cover with concrete, you now have a concrete encased electrode.

Of course I would run this by my AHJ before trying it.

I've done this once before and he was the one to suggest it.
 
Hilti makes a ground rod driver that is basically an adapted electric jack hammer that is supposed to be able to drive a ground rod in impossible conditions.

I would never suggest cutting off the bottom of the rod. What a pain that would be. Cut off the top instead.

Some rods have stamped length that shows how far down the rod has been driven. . .this is what inspectors look for.
Cutting off the bottom is a workaround (and cheating) but sometimes doesn't work especially when the inspector is familiar with the geology of area. A lot of those suburban housing are setting on soil on top of sandstone layer--and common in areas in the outlying areas in Los Angeles county.
 
ground rod

ground rod

When we buy a ground rod. we cut it in at least 4 pieces some time 5 pieces. and use a spoon to put it in.
 
NEC has required a ufer ground for many code cycles.
What am I missing that you are still driving ground rods?
 
NEC has required a ufer ground for many code cycles.
What am I missing that you are still driving ground rods?

Houses have been built much longer than the NEC has been requiring CEC's.

It is not uncommon on service changes and upgrades to install ground rods to meet the grounding electrode requirements.
 
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