What would you do - "Mobile Home" feeder cable

[bbaumer]

Hi all. Resi-work is a little unusual for me and I mostly do design these days, not install anymore, so I need to ask the experts.

A friend of mine is adding on to his home and needs to relocate and upgrade the service. He does not want any poles in his yard and wants to have the meter and a disconnect roughly 150' from his home at an existing pole where the existing pole mounted transformer is located. The only way to get to where he wants the new panel is to go under the addition, or at least through the crawl space of the addition and into the basement of the existing home where he wants the panel to be.

Thinking of going with PVC conduit in the crawl, offsetting down to below grade and out to the new meter/disconnect location and using 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 Southwire AlumaFlex "Mobile Home Feeder" cable in conduit all the way. I'll have one 90 and two 45's to offset from the crawl down into the ground. straight run into the basement with maybe an LR down to the panel. Since this cable is rated RHH/RHW-2 and USE-2 I think it is acceptable. I have never used this cable before.:


Click here for image of cable. Image too large for thread.

http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/proddetail.jsp?htmlpreview=true&token=15&desc=AL-Mobile%20Home%20Feeder

Yea or nay on this idea? Better solutions? Thanks.

 

[dan55]

you might save a little money if you transition to ser cable in crawlspace. using gutter taps and a j-box.

 

[bbaumer]

you might save a little money if you transition to ser cable in crawlspace. using gutter taps and a j-box.

Yes, I could to that but I did not want any exposed cable. Prefer pipe all the way to the panel. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[dan55]

if you want to stay with raceway you could still transition to xhhw , gutter taps and j-box. this would save about a buck a foot on the wire according to prices I have here. Might be a wash though by the time you throw in extra labor to make this transition.

 

[bpk]

If there is going to be a disconnect on the pole 150' from the house then the wires running to the house panel through the crawl space would be considered feeders. I dont remember the code section or have my book but Im pretty sure that you would have to have a disconnect again on the outside of the structure or as soon as they enter into the building. If Im wrong I bet somebody here will correct me.

 

[brantmacga]

if you want to stay with raceway you could still transition to xhhw , gutter taps and j-box. this would save about a buck a foot on the wire according to prices I have here. Might be a wash though by the time you throw in extra labor to make this transition.

What are you paying for 4/0 MH feeder? I bought some friday for $2.81/ft. That's less than what I pay for 4/0 SER.

 

[dan55]

Yeah , disregard what I said before. looking at the wrong column for pricing. 4/0 xhhw is 90 cents per foot. 1.80 plus .65 for the 2/0 plus ground wouldn't save anything. 4/0 mobile home feeder here right now is 2.73 per ft.

 

[eprice]

bbaumer,

From your description of what you plan to do, I'm not sure that you are providing the disconnecting means at the house required to be located "nearest the point of entrance of the conductors" as required in 225.32.

 

[bbaumer]

bbaumer,

From your description of what you plan to do, I'm not sure that you are providing the disconnecting means at the house required to be located "nearest the point of entrance of the conductors" as required in 225.32.

The disconnect would be the main in the panel which would be near the entry point into the basement. Depends on if the crawl space would be considered as the nearest point of entry or the basement........

 

[LarryFine]

If Im wrong I bet somebody here will correct me.

I won't.

 

[augie47]

See 225.32 and it's reference 230.6. I believe the conductors in the crawl space are "inside" the building and the disconnecting means must be outside or immediately inside.

 

[bbaumer]

bbaumer,

From your description of what you plan to do, I'm not sure that you are providing the disconnecting means at the house required to be located "nearest the point of entrance of the conductors" as required in 225.32.

225.32 falls under part II. More than one building or other structure.

There are no other buildings or structures on this site fed from this service so I am not sure this section applies. If he decides to feed a shed or garage from the house later I think it would still comply because the disconnect for the house would be located outside of the structure, compliant for services. The feeder to the shed would fall under "each additional structure" in 225.30, not "each structure" and should have it's own disconnect per 225.32. He would not have to go back and add the disconnect to the house at that time.

I believe the reasoning for the disconnect on the outside of the building or immediately inside the building is so the fire department can easily figure out how to disconnect the service. Since the disconnect in this case is readily visible and accessible I am not sure I would need to add a second disconnect on the side of the house or immediately inside where the conductors enter the crawl space.

230-70 Location of disconnecting means for the SERVICE says to comply with A1, A2 and A3

A1 outside or nearest inside - Yep
A2 - Not in a bathroom - Yep, it's outside.
A3 - Remote control - does not apply.

225 Part II - More than one building - nope.

225.32 - Location - Sorry, not applicable, only one building.

Anyone else?

 

[wirebender]

Structure. That which is built or constructed. Article 100


I believe the pole the disconnect is mounted on would be a structure. IMSO

 

[augie47]

Structure. That which is built or constructed. Article 100


I believe the pole the disconnect is mounted on would be a structure. IMSO

Although I don't like it, I agree.

I know we don't mix Code & logic, but if you feed from one "building" to another and it's deemed wise for 230.6 to apply at the 2nd building, it would seem the same rule should apply when you feed from one "structure" (pole) to the building.

 

[Cow]

Is it not possible to bury it in a trench 18" deep under the crawlspace to satisfy the requirements of 225.32 and 230.6(4)?

 

[bbaumer]

Is it not possible to bury it in a trench 18" deep under the crawlspace to satisfy the requirements of 225.32 and 230.6(4)?

Yes, I was just trying to avoid the coordination with whoever is gonna do the foundation work, but yes, I can and then the disconnecting means location is moot.

Anymore thoughts on the entrance cable?

 

[Cow]

The cable you listed is a little overkill, I would probably go with their 4/0-4/0-2/0-4 instead. You could also price out individual AL USE conductors also just for a price comparison. Mobile home feeder cable and USE are pretty common, you should have no problems with either.

 

[gra electric]

Is it not possible to bury it in a trench 18" deep under the crawlspace to satisfy the requirements of 225.32 and 230.6(4)?

Rather than trench it, since you are going to use pvc the whole way, than why don't you just form it up 2" around the conduit and pour concrete? It is considered outside the building and crawl space if encased in concrete.

Gerry