What would you do next?

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Minuteman

Minuteman

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The Sooner Nation
Lady works in the office for a company where we have done a great deal of work in the past, but not so much lately. She sets an appointment with me for Monday night to look at her panel.

"The breakers keep falling out", she says.



I find an old inside Sq D panel, and this Bryant 4/8 panel outside. With two old "BR" 20/20 breakers on top, and a "CH" 2P50 Cutler Hammer breaker on the bottom. The 50-amp CH breaker is double lugged with two #12's per pole. The 50-amp CH is barely hanging on to the damaged buss. The red BR 20/20 has been overheated.

I told her how important it was for me to fix it right away, but she said that she would have to contact her landlord. I said that I should at least put the correct brand breaker in tonight, but she said said that the landlord would call me Tuesday.

So, this morning (Tuesday) I get a call from her LL and he asks me my price. I said $850 for new RT Panel, Meter base, Riser, GR and permit. All the breakers will be in a new 100-amp panel.

"Can't you just replace the breaker?"

"No, you have inside and outside main panels (meter is double lugged) that together are rated at more than the 60-amp meter base. The 50-amp breaker outside is the wrong breaker brand for the panel and is double lugged. The buss has been heat damaged. It all needs to be upgraded."

"I'll call you back." But he has not called yet.

What would you do next? :confused:
 
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what next

what next

send a rgistered letter to the town that you tried to repair and the landlord is giving you a hard time. This should take liability off of you that you are trying in a best effort to correct a problem yet have your hands tied as to getting paid for necessary work. The town should take it from there dont expect to get the job tho.
 
Minuteman said:
So, this morning (Tuesday) I get a call from her LL and he asks me my price. I said $850 for new RT Panel, Meter base, Riser, GR and permit. All the breakers will be in a new 100-amp panel.

What would you do next? :confused:
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Hope she doesn't call back; you're price is about half of what it should be, in my opinion.
 
quogueelectric said:
send a rgistered letter to the town that you tried to repair and the landlord is giving you a hard time. This should take liability off of you that you are trying in a best effort to correct a problem yet have your hands tied as to getting paid for necessary work. The town should take it from there dont expect to get the job tho.
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I don't get that, he sends a proposal, the landlord doesn't reply and there is liability on his part??? I think not in my humble opinion.
 
I'm not sure about that liability part (wish I could bill out at $250 per hour), but how can you sleep at night knowing that installations out there. I think you at least have to notify the town that during an estimate you ran in to a very unsafe condition, and the HO has not called you back to give you the go ahead to repair it. Think the inspector should pay the house a visit.
 
What would you do next?

LarryFine said:
Hope she doesn't call back; you're price is about half of what it should be, in my opinion.
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That's good Larry my thoughts also.
I also don't think you would be liable if something goes wrong after all you just looked and gave a bid. I also understand your concerns so I would call her and tell her your concerns and make sure she knows how dangerous it is and she should get someone to fix it even if not you. Then I would let it go because you did the best you could do way beyond your duty. Just be glad you didn't get the job because the bid is really to low in my opinion.
Semper Fi
 
Report the landlord to the township land lords have a lot of resposibiltys around hear, if you report them around hear they usually follow up with an inspection of the property. If you do report them dont expect to get the job. maybe call the landlord and tell him your going to report it, but you would rather work with him. And Im not sure, but there could be some liability if you saw the problem but dint report???? At least if inform the township it's off your plate.

Good luck.
 
Minuteman said:
What would you do next? :confused:
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Send a written description of the repairs needed and an estimate for repairs to the landlord. Along with a bill for the service call, refundable if s/he hires you to do the repairs.
 
R2006 said:
Report the landlord to the township land lords have a lot of resposibiltys around hear, if you report them around hear they usually follow up with an inspection of the property. If you do report them dont expect to get the job. maybe call the landlord and tell him your going to report it, but you would rather work with him. And Im not sure, but there could be some liability if you saw the problem but dint report???? At least if inform the township it's off your plate.

Good luck.
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If I understand correctly, even if an inspector arrived to inspect a new receptacle installed by you in a dining room, they couldn't get a violation for other visable noncompliant work unless there was a compelling hazard to life an property. (IOW, a switchplate cover missing or a receptacle loose in the wall couldn't be red-tagged because you called for an inspection on something else.)

That said, if the situation isn't life threatening, you've done enough. If it is, call the town or send a letter. (Include your photo.)
 
Around here there are alot of college rentals aka: slum lords, around here a missing plate would get red flagged (some moron sticks a fork in it and get shocked, or a short from the switch onto a piel of news papers) also a loose outlet could cause problems. And when the township is notified around here they will also inspect for smoke detectors. like you said though turn it over to them and let them decide what to do do at least you'll be done with it.
 
It sounds like a catch 22 situation because no matter what you do it going to cause someone problems. I guess I would ask you how you you feel about the lady who called you over..if she is a friend, I would advise the friend of how bad it is so she know the truth. It is her life that is endanger if it burns down. otherwise you have no liability except in moral obligation to yourself. The renter can file a complaint to the state there is laws that regulate landlords. I wish you luck in this. My actions would be related to my relationship with the tenant....even if you pressure landlord to do work and he allows you to do it. You will than have the next hassle collecting...Good luck..
 
I don't have the LL's address, only his number. I just give a written estimate to her. (Before I knew that it was a rental).

I know the city's inspections department pretty well, and could call them or send a letter. I thought about dropping by her office today to see what has been done.

I know that if a plumber or heat/air guy detects a gas leak, he is obligated to shut the gas off - no questions! Is it the same for faulty service?

As far as the price goes. I figure about $250 in marked up parts and 6 hours labor. Permit is $48.50, so how much would you charge?
 
Minuteman said:
As far as the price goes. I figure about $250 in marked up parts and 6 hours labor. Permit is $48.50, so how much would you charge?
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I don't bid a service change by the hour. It's a flat rate fee. I'm taking all the chances if things don't go as well as planed ( it can happen ). So a new 100 AMP service with new ground system would be a minimum of $1600. When I see the job the price normally goes up a bit because I always see a few things that need to be done to make the installation safe. I would make it an all day job, this gives you a chance to mark the panel correctly and give the house a brief inspection for other hazards.

I alway feel better when I don't get a job ( same time required ) that I bid at $2K than if I bid it at $850 and if I get the job I really feel better. :smile:

Post Script. You are probably going to have to eat this service call because the owner didn't call you. Someone eventually has to pay for all the wasted time. Service changes are a good place to make up for lost time.
 
For what it's worth, the fact that two service disconnects add up to more than the meter and service conductor rating is not in itself a violation.

230.90(A) Exception 3
 
I didn't have time today to go by and talk to her, so I called. She said another guy is supposed to come by and look at it sometime???

I did my best to impress upon her the urgency of the need for upgrade. She said that she understands, and that her parents have offered for her to come stay with them for a while.

The city has a extensive web site for permits. I can look it up, if somebody pulls one. If not, she lives close to a supply house that I frequent.
 
iwire said:
For what it's worth, the fact that two service disconnects add up to more than the meter and service conductor rating is not in itself a violation.

230.90(A) Exception 3
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I see.

But the fact that there are more than 6 throws, and that 5 are outside and 4 are inside are a violation.
 
Minuteman said:
But the fact that there are more than 6 throws, and that 5 are outside and 4 are inside are a violation.
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Oh yeah, and they are other problems as well, it looks like time for a new service. :smile:

Just reminding folks about one of the code sections.
 
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